Let's talk about Rocket Grab.

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Ressa

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Hi, Riot.

Tell me, have you ever played a match against someone playing the lovely hero we all know as Blitzcrank? I don't think you have. Because it's the most annoying, frustrating, boring thing in the world to be anywhere near blitzcrank. Here is what is goes through my head when Blitzcrank is anywhere remotely close to me

CANT BE WITHIN 1200 OF HIM GOTTA BE BEHIND CREEPS CREEPS ARE GETTING LOW, GOTTA RUN, GOTTA BE 1200 AWAY GOTTA BE BEHIND CREEPS. And so on. It's just not fun, plain and simple, to be playing against rocket grab.

Let's not pretend here, Rocket Grab is essentially an instant-kill move. I don't even need to elaborate, we all know that it's true, if you get grabbed you are dead, and quite often you are dead before you hit the ground from the power fist.

It doesn't even make sense from a design standpoint, Rocket Grab is Blitzcrank's strongest move, it's his main selling point, it's what everyone thinks of when they think of Blitzcrank, and it's one of his BASIC abilities. Comparatively, his ult? Nine hells, I bet a lot of people don't really know what his ult is, it's so underwhelming.

Now, even though I have a burning hatred for Blitzcrank and everyone who plays him, I am aware that screaming nerf, or delete the hero is not only counter-productive, but it's never going to be the course of action a game design team should take. Rocket grab needs to be made reasonable though. Seriously. If this would hurt blitzcrank too severely, then certainly, compensating him in other ways would be only reasonable. It should be noted although I feel that Rocket Grab is still completely stupid late game, it is not as much of a problem as it is early game (It's a huge problem early game)

Right then, I am going to propose some simple solutions here, or even just directions in which to move blitzcrank that I hope you will consider. I'm posting Solutions, which are ways to make Rocket Grab more reasonable, and Compensations, which are ways to make Blitzcrank stronger as a result of any nerfs, and also more interesting and less of a one trick pony.

Solution a) Make Rocket Grab Blitzcrank's ult, make Static Field a basic move. Make Rocket Grab increase in damage/reduce cooldown/extend range slightly as it levels.

This solution is perhaps the one that makes the most sense logically if Rocket Grab is left as it is functionally. As I mentioned, Rocket Grab is one of the strongest moves in the game, why is it a basic abilty that only needss 1 rank to instantly kill people? This would also make Blitzcrank better at early game farming using Static Field, if it was toned down in a similar manner as Spell Flux.

Solution b) Make Rocket Grab scale with levels properly via extending the range/reducing the cooldown as it levels, instead of just the damage. This would force Blitzcrank to actually make a choice about how many levels of grab he wants, would prevent him from having a super long grab range until level 9 at least.

Solution c) Make Rocket Grab dodgeable. This is done via either slowing projectile speed or adding startup lag to the ability. In it's current state, rocket grab is not dodgeable. No, I know, everyone says it is, they are wrong. You cannot dodge rocket grab, you can JUKE Rocket Grab, you cannot dodge it, there is a difference. Essentially it comes down to you zig-zagging and praying that the Blitzcrank player gets impatient AND guesses wrong. If the Blitzcrank player guesses right or just waits for you to commit, there is absolutely no hope for dodging rocket grab. Again, this is not fun.

Solution d) Change Rocket Grab to drag the target X units TOWARDS blitzcrank, rather than moving them right next to him. This would allow you to actually not constantly be in mortal danger whenever you are remotely near blitzcrank. Again, the distance you get dragged could increase with levels. It would still keep the same functionality when the enemy is relatively close to Blitzcrank, but make it so that you don't get snatched from across the map by him.

Obviously, these are all nerfs, let's talk about what else we can do with Blitzcrank to show him that we still care about him. Obviously, I feel that Static Field and Rocket Grab itself should be the abilities to focus on.

Compensation a) Add a peripheral effect to Rocket Grab. The idea that came to mind was that as Blitzcrank drags someone towards him, it does damage to all units that get in the way of the dragged unit. This allows Blitzcrank not only to farm better, but to spread out the incredible pain of Rocket Grab so that it's not just 1 target getting annihilated.

Compensation b) Increase base effects of all of Blitzcrank's abilities. Several of the above solutions involve making it so that Rocket Grab is more effective as it levels. As it stands right now, Blitz can just put 1 point into Grab, and then put his points elsewhere. If he's suddenly forced to put points into rocket grab to get the same/a similar effect, then suddenly he has less points in Power Fist and Overdrive. Increasing the base effect of these abilities would allieviate that somewhat.

Compensation c) Increase the sustained damage of his ultimate. Most likely through the passive. Again, I state that Blitzes ult is somewhat underwhelming. Increasing it's effectiveness would be a good way to improve him if Rocket Grab gets it's needed nerf. This could be done either via increasing the discharge damage, or perhaps by making the discharges multi-target as it levels (discharges bolts at 1/2/3 nearby targets every 2.5 seconds)

Compensation d) Give a passive effect to Rocket Grab when off Cooldown. Honestly, no idea what this might be, but it would discourage spamming the ability nonstop.

Anyway, let me know what you all think, unless you think that Rocket Grab is fine, because you're just lying to yourself, and we all know it : D


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br0kn

Member

12-22-2009

A. Its called a Skill-shot for a reason.

B. He's 6K+ IP for a reason.

C. It just RECENTLY got patched to go where you accually aimed it...

Learn to not stand still.


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Ressa

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by br0kn View Post
A. Its called a Skill-shot for a reason.

B. He's 6K+ IP for a reason.

C. It just RECENTLY got patched to go where you accually aimed it...

Learn to not stand still.
Rocket Grab is far more deadly at rank 1 than a lot of other Skillshots are at max rank, while also having a faster projectile speed.

IP cost does not justify being OP.

Being buggy for X amount of time does not justify it being OP now.

I play Anivia, I hit moving targets with Flash Frost all the time.


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-22-2009

His strongest move is Power Fist, if you ask me. Rocket Grab is one of the best initiator attacks in the game, though.

His ultimate is great now. 500 insta-damage you can blast in an AOE is pretty significant, especially because it's next to instant. The passive shock is pretty helpful when you first get it for nuking creeps, too.

Rocket Grab is fine, and it's fine for this reason: It's dodge-able (it's hard to avoid, but it's still avoidable.) Cry all you want, you know it's true. Back when Blitzcrank's rocket grab had a slower missile speed, it was IMPOSSIBLE to hit with it. Now it's difficult to dodge. I'm okay with that.

I don't think the character is going to get changed just because he's "boring to lane against." Fact of the matter is, you CAN hide behind your creeps, you CAN dodge the attack, and the move takes a considerable amount of mana. (Post level 6 or so, you don't notice it all that much, but you run out of mana with two rocket grabs at level 1, come on.)


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br0kn

Member

12-22-2009

Rocket grab also has a much shorter range than MOST other shots in game. Granted, Anivia is on the very short stick of it, but...

Have you been hit by an AP Nidilee spear lately? 1/2 your health with NO threat to anyone. Again. Get some move speed, learn to stay behind things... Temmo's shrooms are great if you have one, and learn not to stand still.

90% of the time when I get hit by a S-shot, I shouldn't have been there.


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Palette Town

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ressa View Post
Rocket Grab is far more deadly at rank 1 than a lot of other Skillshots are at max rank, while also having a faster projectile speed.

IP cost does not justify being OP.

Being buggy for X amount of time does not justify it being OP now.

I play Anivia, I hit moving targets with Flash Frost all the time.
nerf flash frost please


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Ressa

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by I8C SRS FACE View Post
His strongest move is Power Fist, if you ask me. Rocket Grab is one of the best initiator attacks in the game, though.

His ultimate is great now. 500 insta-damage you can blast in an AOE is pretty significant, especially because it's next to instant. The passive shock is pretty helpful when you first get it for nuking creeps, too.

Rocket Grab is fine, and it's fine for this reason: It's dodge-able (it's hard to avoid, but it's still avoidable.) Cry all you want, you know it's true. Back when Blitzcrank's rocket grab had a slower missile speed, it was IMPOSSIBLE to hit with it. Now it's difficult to dodge. I'm okay with that.

I don't think the character is going to get changed just because he's "boring to lane against." Fact of the matter is, you CAN hide behind your creeps, you CAN dodge the attack, and the move takes a considerable amount of mana. (Post level 6 or so, you don't notice it all that much, but you run out of mana with two rocket grabs at level 1, come on.)
Before MR, Static Field does 400 damage at max rank, actually

I believe I already explained the difference between juking and dodging. It certainly is possible to avoid, but you have to OBSESS about avoiding it, which is dumb.

The ability costing too much mana just makes it even less fun. And why shouldn't they change a hero who is painfully boring to lane against? Aren't they trying to make the game more fun? I believe when your goal is to make a game fun, you specifically target boring elements.


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Adhoc

Senior Member

12-22-2009

.. Dodging skill shots is not fun?

Honestly my favorite games are when I'm against morgana/blitz/mundo/CM etc because I constantly have to be on guard, and it's not just a pace-pace-pace -> last hit -> repeat.

PS: his ult isn't bad at all.


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br0kn

Member

12-22-2009

Nope. You don't have to acually OBSESS about missing it. You just have to be aware that its there.

Also. See Adhoc.


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GarwooD

Member

12-22-2009

i have a question about compenstation a. how exactly would he dragg anything through anything else hostile? i maen if any thing else was in the way it woulda got grabbed instead of the intended target.

also rocket grab is totally not spammable until much later it cost a ton of mana and has long cool down and if he whiffs it he is just stuck in place until it connects with something or goes full range. (basically inflicting a 1+ second stun on him self)

it also doesnt drag through tree line (like pudges meat hook did) so he cant really hide behind the trees and get you with it either.

also you can abuse his innate ability by kiting him over creeps with range heroes or range nukes triggering his (in my opinion) worthless innate and sapping 50%+ of his mana away.

i do like compensation c i hope they bring back the silence on his ultimate activation.


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