S4 Mastery Changes - The Jungle Tree

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NeoSeraphi

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Okay, this is probably the wrong forum, but it doesn't go in Art & Audio or Items or HUD, so...champs it is.

Riot has officially accepted the jungler meta for a while now. They make champions that function well in the jungle, they tailor some abilities to function better in the jungle (like incoming rework Olaf's Q), and they even made sweet new jungle items.

Also, Riot is having a hard time balancing jungle items and jungler gold with laners looking to abuse the goodies their suffering jungle buddies get.

Here's an idea: Why don't we have a Jungle Mastery Tree? Perhaps Riot could make a special code for it that prevents players from using any masteries in the tree during a game unless they're also using Smite, so that we don't have to worry about people messing with the tree and Riot can actually try and help legitimate jungle players out in ways that ADCs and top laners can't get in on.

Suggested Masteries:
Improved Smite: Having this mastery gives you 3 extra gold per 10 seconds, and 10 extra gold each time you use Smite.

Spirit Affinity: Increase the duration of jungle monster buffs by 20% (The other buffs for the other maps remain in Runic Affinity in the Utility tree)

Bounty Hunter: Each time you kill a neutral monster or an enemy champion, you gain 1/2/3/4 extra gold.

Tough Skin

Bladed Armor

Perceptive - You gain the ability to see enemy wards, but cannot attack them unless you have true vision from another source like a pink or oracles.

Unexpected Charge - You gain 4/6/8/10% extra move speed when you move from a brush towards an enemy champion for 5 seconds.

And the final mastery of this page would be

Master of Control - Any crowd control you inflict lasts 30% longer.

With some awesome changes to the jungler mastery page, you could give junglers more sustain (opening up more jungle options), easier ganks (which increases their gold flow), and late game presence.


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Frightning

Senior Member

09-13-2013

^ So many things about this are just, hell no.


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GlyphTsen

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
Here's an idea: Why don't we have a Jungle Mastery Tree? Perhaps Riot could make a special code for it that prevents players from using any masteries in the tree during a game unless they're also using Smite, so that we don't have to worry about people messing with the tree and Riot can actually try and help legitimate jungle players out in ways that ADCs and top laners can't get in on.
Well, ideally, you'd simply make the "Jungle Mastery" tree unappealing to champions that aren't likely to fight against monsters often, so requiring smite (which, if the tree is attractive enough to require such a restriction, would probably just involve more people getting Smite) isn't necessary.

That said, the main problems with having individual trees are there in a couple places...

1. You'd have to think of enough Masteries to be worth while both for the tree itself, and undoubtedly also to replace what gets moved into that tree from the others. This isn't so much of a "can't do it" thing as a "why do it?" though, and it can be difficult to have enough generalized and specialized Masteries to balance out. Would the effort be worth it?

2. People tend to like the idea that there isn't an overly specialized Mastery tree. Offense will tend to be used for aggressive champions, yes, but it isn't location specific. Both Solo Lanes and supported Lane Carries (and some Junglers) will often go heavy into Offense. Likewise while Defense is primarily heavily invested in with tanks, Defense Masteries can often be chosen by Bruisers, Supports, and champions that lean more on one of those traits than their others. Utility is often attractive for almost anyone, pending playstyle.

3. Junglers are one of the few roles that easily have an excuse (and to a degree necessity) to evenly split their Masteries, so it's effectively a tree on it's own anyway. Having less specialized trees also makes it easier to come up with unconventional or champion-specific (or even matchup specific) Mastery builds.

Quote:
Suggested Masteries:
Improved Smite: Having this mastery gives you 3 extra gold per 10 seconds, and 10 extra gold each time you use Smite.
Isn't that just an improved Improve Smite? This, and several other comments, make me think you just want to buff Jungling in general, which honestly could be easier to do without making a new Mastery tree.

Quote:
Master of Control - Any crowd control you inflict lasts 30% longer.
Aside from the fact that many jungling champions have no significant CC (or applicable, as I would assume displacement effects would not be effected along with location-based CC-Fields), thus making it far less than ideal for a 21-point talent, this should just never exist in the first place. Riot's game is balanced around CC durations being: A) Predictable (and not everyone will know whether a person has that mastery or not) and B) a certain length. Some CC is longer/stronger than others, but generally there are certain limits, including on the type and amount of follow-up damage can be expected from the champion with CC. Having an effect that increases CC duration (or in the case of slows, intensity) would have a large effect on the game's balance, even if it was "restricted" to junglers. It would impact itemization, Mastery preference for almost every champion, and have a significant impact on champion choices by players and future balancing and design.


That isn't altogether a bad thing. DotA for example is much more focused on strong CC from my experience, but it mitigates it in different ways (BKB vs. Merc. Scimitar for example, general Magic Immunity on champions [Lifestealer the most prominent] and monsters [the golems] etc.) and is balanced around a much different item/stat system and champion pool. Personally, I think DotA is a fine game, but I don't personally want Riot to make their game more like it, and I think Riot's flavor of balance suits me better, at least when it comes to CC.


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NeoSeraphi

Senior Member

09-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlyphTsen View Post
Isn't that just an improved Improve Smite? This, and several other comments, make me think you just want to buff Jungling in general, which honestly could be easier to do without making a new Mastery tree.
That would be the idea yes. Riot is also looking for ways to increase gold flow to jungler champions and they deflect most item-based suggestions on the basis that laners will probably be able to build them as well. So I figured that a mastery tree specialized for junglers would probably be the easiest way to fix the problem.

But if you're so confident, please enlighten me (and go post in the Jungle/Support Gold thread so Xelnath can see your ideas). I've been wracking my brain trying to figure this out too and it seems to me like it's anything but simple.


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TioMono

Senior Member

09-14-2013

Master of Control - Any crowd control you inflict lasts 30% longer.

No way. Fiddle fear nuff said.


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NeoSeraphi

Senior Member

09-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TioMono View Post
Master of Control - Any crowd control you inflict lasts 30% longer.

No way. Fiddle fear nuff said.
Yeah, there are a few long-duration hard ccs in the game, like Terrify, Puncturing Taunt and Shadow Dash, and this mastery would increase their base durations to about 4 seconds (actually 3.9 or something). However, I think it's a little lame that players who like champs with long duration ccs can't specialize in that with any itemization or masteries the way everyone else can. You like magic damage? AP or MR Pen. You like auto attacks? Crit. You like crits? Infinity Edge. You like tanking? What's your pleasure? We've got "return enemy autos to them", we've got "deal damage just by standing next to them", we've got "Slow them every time they attack and AOE slow", we've got "AOE attack speed reduction"... the list goes on.

Especially considering how many items there are that cc opponents (slows), like BotRK, Cutlass, Rylai's, Frozen Mallet, it just sucks that we can have Tenacity on an item but we can't have Reverse Tenacity anywhere.