Damnit Morello is revealing all of my secrets again...

First Riot Post
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Gupi75

Member

09-11-2013

Maybe remove green wards from the game and give everybody an extra summoner's spell slot, but this one is fixed and has the 'flare' summoner spell in it. So all roles can flare up an area for a while just like wards do now. Remove sightstone from the game and bring back heart of gold. The result is that everybody will be responsible for vision and it will free up a bit of that burden from the support.

But what with pink wards? They're still needed to counter stealth. Well my opinion has always been that stealth has no place in this game. They will never remove it as they would have to rework a dozen of champs, so don't panic. So I don't know what to do with pinks.

As it stands now though, if the enemy team has a stealth champ, you know you're automaticaly behind compared to their support as you have to invest in more pink wards.

And like someone else said, look at other mobas and see if you can use anything.


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Poeta Somnium

Senior Member

09-11-2013

What about a new mastery at the bottom of the utility tree;

Quote:
Purchasing a ward lowers the price of all subsequent wards by x%?
The more wards a player purchases in the early stage of the game reduces the cumulative expense as the game progresses, making late-game items more accessible?

I know that for me personally, stocking up on wards would be a lot less painful if I knew they just kept getting cheaper.

(I have no idea. It is literally the first thing that popped into my head and I have given it no extensive consideration whatsoever. No flaming please! )


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AR Manimal

Senior Member

09-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Also engaged in some discussions with teammates about the support gold ideas. Also had to fix an xp bug I caused by accident. It's been a busy day
Any idea when we'd be seeing a similar thread about jungle gold?


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Lucid1llusion

Senior Member

09-11-2013

The biggest concern that I have with warding updates is that I don't want every person to get the chance at a near infinate supply of wards . . .This would ruin jungling . . .

That ward item basically closed off bottom lane to ganks until the price was updated . . .


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Captain Alejo

Senior Member

09-11-2013

While we are talking about support changes - What about showing preview of the area claimed with a ward?

I like that I can tell whether a ward would be in the brush (green/blue cursor), but there are times when I'm not sure how much line of sight I would have over a specific area.

Example:

The Dragon and Baron pits are notorious for this reason. Many places dip wards behind the corners of the pit to have them avoid vision from wards on the outside. When placing a pink ward in the pit in order to clear enemy wards, I have trouble gauging exactly where I should place my ward. What often happens is that I drop it very deep within the pit to avoid any chance of error.

The ability to see the vision circle I will create when I place my ward would be great. I see this functioning similar to abilities like Aatrox's Dark Flight or Maokai's Sapling Toss. When a ward is selected it has a circle indicator along with it to highlight the region I would see if placed. This circle could be augmented based on line of site to show me two colored areas in the circle: one area to demonstrate vision the ward would give me and one to demonstrate vision the ward would not have.

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Rockman

Senior Member

09-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
  • What do you think are the problems with support income?
  • How much gold do you think supports need over the course of a 50 minute game (hint: I know the answer, but tell me what you think...)
  • If we were to give more gold to supports, in what kind of situations would you expect to be getting more gold?
  • How do we get other players to recognize the power of wards and the vision they provide?
  • Are all wards too powerful? Are just pink wards too powerful?
  • Should the lowest income character shoulder the highest consumable expenditures in the game?
  • Are the expectations on a support player too high?
1. No matter how much gold you give them, they are forced into buying more wards. You might have to pull from Dota, and make wards limited if you wanted to change that.
2. Enough to buy Tier 2 boots, 2 support items, and sightstone. Ionian boots plus Shurelyas and locket, plus sightstone.
3. Ward skins would work
4. Pink wards cost 50 more gold, and only 20 more if you clear one. Pretty cost effective.
5. Yes. That's a standard, and makes the most sense.
6. I think a support player should have a high impact role in the game. I think have the expectations too low.


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Buboniic

Senior Member

09-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Alejo View Post
While we are talking about support changes - What about showing preview of the area claimed with a ward?

I like that I can tell whether a ward would be in the brush (green/blue cursor), but there are times when I'm not sure how much line of sight I would have over a specific area.

Example:

The Dragon and Baron pits are notorious for this reason. Many places dip wards behind the corners of the pit to have them avoid vision from wards on the outside. When placing a pink ward in the pit in order to clear enemy wards, I have trouble gauging exactly where I should place my ward. What often happens is that I drop it very deep within the pit to avoid any chance of error.

The ability to see the vision circle I will create when I place my ward would be great. I see this functioning similar to abilities like Aatrox's Dark Flight or Maokai's Sapling Toss. When a ward is selected it has a circle indicator along with it to highlight the region I would see if placed. This circle could be augmented based on line of site to show me two colored areas in the circle: one area to demonstrate vision the ward would give me and one to demonstrate vision the ward would not have.
I agree, #riotpls

Im tired of putting a ward in a bush then it totally ignores a side of the bush and It ends up being a worthless ward.


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Tolinar

Senior Member

09-11-2013

Hi. I'm a "Support main" checking in.
First off I want to say that some of these issues - such as being tied to the ADC, or the burden of vision being placed on the support alone - is a matter of player intelligence and flexibility. As a support, very often I will simply leave a marksman that underperforms, and go support, say, the fizz that is 3 and 0. At my level of play, it's very important to quickly analyze whether a player is actually going to benefit from my support, or whether they are latched into "auto-play" mode.


I think that "auto mode" is kinda important. The big problem that I see with the current support situation is, the game is currently set up to ensure we interfere with our marksman as little as possible. So while the marksman plays a standard farm vs. attack puzzle/game, the supports are playing a shoestring violin - trying to do as much as they can with as little as possible. Taking kills is frowned upon, unless there is total evidence the kill would not be had at all without the support's effort. Even if the marksman is terrible at last hitting, taking CS is also frowned upon. And in the lower states of play, this creates a "this is my lane" level of entitlement from the marksman. In extreme cases, the support can't even initiate on the enemy team and have his teammate follow through, because the marksman feels his job is to get as much gold as possible, not work together with his support.


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TheJungleBear

Junior Member

09-11-2013

@Xelnath

I think a really easy way to motivate and reward people for warding would be to list how many wards you placed in the end of game stats screen. Not only would this show how helpful that 2/4/16 support was, it would also encourage other team mates to ward. This could be implemented with 0 balance changes and I think would really help people be more aware of their vision problem.


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Beatrix

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Senior Member

09-11-2013

I pretty much main support in Dominion specifically because I don't like what they've become in Summoner's Rift. Dominion gives you a constant stream of gold, so eventually everyone reaches an endgame build. I've found that actually having items makes support insanely fun, way more fun than just being a wardbot with an ultimate.

Aside from a few unique cases (Lulu is considered amazing on Dominion), I don't feel that supports become extremely powerful compared to mages and such on Dominion because mages still scale better even if I have a full build. What I CAN do is actually participate in fights without instantly blowing up and make awesome saves on a more constant basis. If having more income in SR would allow that (and I don't mean the meager 200-300g boost they gave us in S3), then I might actually play SR again.