Diamond 1 Garen @ Riot/Balance Team - Why NERF Garen?!?

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Thefeos

Recruiter

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS13d1b7345cef086e4182a View Post
hover over your attack damage stat in the UI. its been there for some time now.


as for the changes, they wont make it to live. ive read on the pbe forums, that the crit chance is even just 1% to 3% due to a coding error.
But it always shows for him but for me only when i hover over it ?


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Noble1213

Member

09-09-2013

I agree with OP, he makes alot of sense. Allow Garen to move faster through minions to compensate for the lack of not being able to cancel Judgment. 50% speed reduction (while moving through units) is too high, make it 15-30%, so if the enemy champion is no longer chaseable he can move out of range for the minions. It won't make up for instantly cancelling the spin but it can help not push.
Top lane is a very snowbally lane more than mid or bot and its all about minion control, if u get zoned for a wave or 2 because ur lane was pushed ur going to be .5-1 lvl behind and when the waves reset ur opponent will have the upper hand.

And ya .. the visual update isn't great, Garen may be a high reward low risk update but honestly do a better job, stop making in fat.


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FarmedAndFamous

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Riots balancing team has a history of making bad decisions...


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Midguy81

Member

09-09-2013

As someone who plays Darius a lot and just recently played Garen for the first time, I appreciate the dichotomy of the two characters. I personally think that Darius is pretty much better in every aspect of the game, but what are the odds that Garen can get some love on his ult?

It just seems so horrible compared to Darius' ult. The "does more damage based on missing health" is cool and all, but his ult still feels weak especially after playing with Darius who not only has a similar mechanic on his ult (increasing damage based on bleed), but also has a refresh timer. I think that a cool mechanic to add to Garen's ult would be to increase the damage the longer you don't use the ult. Thematically, I think its a cool idea (purely as a contrast to Darius' dunk spam), but I don't know how it would be taken gameplay wise since it could discourage less experienced players from using the ult when they probably should.


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JLU6

Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midguy81 View Post
As someone who plays Darius a lot and just recently played Garen for the first time, I appreciate the dichotomy of the two characters. I personally think that Darius is pretty much better in every aspect of the game, but what are the odds that Garen can get some love on his ult?

It just seems so horrible compared to Darius' ult. The "does more damage based on missing health" is cool and all, but his ult still feels weak especially after playing with Darius who not only has a similar mechanic on his ult (increasing damage based on bleed), but also has a refresh timer. I think that a cool mechanic to add to Garen's ult would be to increase the damage the longer you don't use the ult. Thematically, I think its a cool idea (purely as a contrast to Darius' dunk spam), but I don't know how it would be taken gameplay wise since it could discourage less experienced players from using the ult when they probably should.
Maybe charged up from his passive?


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

09-09-2013

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/25...hampion-trades


Judgment [ E ] - Bonus Critical Strike chance now 10/15/20/25/30 (up from 0.1/0.2/0.3


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ice654

Senior Member

09-09-2013

I think Riot is purposely trying to piss people off and ruin the game to prepare them for the transition to LoL 2.


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Aakesh

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdragoon88 View Post
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/25...hampion-trades


Judgment [ E ] - Bonus Critical Strike chance now 10/15/20/25/30 (up from 0.1/0.2/0.3

Riot

We hate RNG so we are taken it out or make it less silly

They now ham fist this **** into Judgment at the cost of damage.


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Maxtras

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdragoon88 View Post
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/25...hampion-trades


Judgment [ E ] - Bonus Critical Strike chance now 10/15/20/25/30 (up from 0.1/0.2/0.3
does that means that alpha strike would also get bonus crit chance?


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A Dying Dream

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
Hi MarineRevenge,
Thanks for your comments. Your thoughts on where crit should be on the kit are especially interesting. I’ll keep them in mind going forward.
Three general points:
First, these changes to Garen are very nascent. To be honest, they went to the PBE because I accidentally placed them in the wrong folder. They are currently closer to the “Stuff a designer prototypes on his machine” level of completion than “Stuff we ship to Live.” Feedback is always welcome, but hyperbolic statements like “they’re ruining him” are not necessary and needlessly breed panic over changes that, when the dust settles, are almost certain to leave him stronger overall.
Second, since this was an accidental promotion, it also did not include all of the changes to Garen – in the version we are about to begin playtesting, his passive is dramatically improved during the later phases of the game (healing values up/cooldown down) and his base stats and stats per level are slightly different.
Third, you have misapprehended the direct effect of some of these changes. For example, Garen’s Judgment (Spin to Win) is not on a longer cooldown. Rather, the cooldown begins when you press the button rather than when you end your spin. This means that Garen scales better with cooldown reduction. For example, at 34% CDR (say, Black Cleaver + Spirit Visage + masteries) Garen would have 25% less downtime on Judgment compared to Live. At 0% CDR, the spell is unchanged from Live in max uptme.

What are these changes really about? Let’s consider the Garen on Live: As you’ve identified, he’s a lane bully who lacks a purpose in the lategame. You seem to believe this is all Garen can ever be. I disagree. Every champion should have a purpose, a clear and potent contribution they can offer their team, in the late game when the game’s focus is on team fights and objectives. The goal of these changes is to trade a small amount of lane strength for a fundamental re-think of Garen’s late game.
My vision for Garen is that he is a relatively low mobility fighter (unchanged) with low combat ranges (unchanged) who a) is more or less immune to poke damage, b) inflicts immense damage to anyone within his reach, and c) if forced out of a fight but not killed, will rapidly regenerate health to return to the fray for cleanup duty. Think of him as an inverted Mundo/Singed – lower in-combat sustain but dramatically higher out of combat sustain. Pre-fight, Garen should walk in front of Nidalee spears and /laugh. Within fights, Garen should cleave a path through the mid-line, force the enemy ADC so far out of the fight that they cannot participate, turn and shut down the enemy mage or tank, execute the other while at 5% life himself, then solo dragon while his team takes an inhibitor.
As a final note, this isn’t just about Garen. We’re looking closely at our fighters as a class for season 4, individually and as a class with the goal of making the top lane experience more enjoyable – (while being in it and after emerging from it).
Love this post, really.