Diamond 1 Garen @ Riot/Balance Team - Why NERF Garen?!?

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Furi Kuri

Member

09-08-2013

So Riot doesn't want to nerf Garen, but "change" him. To bad every time Riot "change" a champion they are severally nerfed.


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Berserk Knight

Junior Member

09-08-2013

My concern with Garen's changes is that the Dreadknight skin is now just way too bright, and because the basic particle effects have been upgraded to match the Steel Legion's particle effects' quality, the Steel Legion skin now effectively has particle effects that are more or less simple recolors of the basic ones.
(I declare the new Classic skin OP!)

...Cosmetic aspects aside, the in-game performance? I'm more or less fine with it. The 10~30% crit in exchange for 0~20 damage/sec isn't that bad, and the cooldown changes fare better with CDR.
The only problem I can think of is when Garen is up against champs that require him to spare his Q until AFTER he's finished spinning, which would allow the opponent to use their disengage freely.


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Samenko

Senior Member

09-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserk Knight View Post
The only problem I can think of is when Garen is up against champs that require him to spare his Q until AFTER he's finished spinning, which would allow the opponent to use their disengage freely.
That is quite a huge problem. You can no longer cancel to Q after they jump out of E. He is going to be a joke in lane. I also get ghostblade on him a lot, and the same goes for that.


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MarineRevenge

Senior Member

09-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi Kuri View Post
So Riot doesn't want to nerf Garen, but "change" him. To bad every time Riot "change" a champion they are severally nerfed.
the last set of changes to garen we're really good, hes in a great spot right now.

too bad they want to mess with it some more, just hoping they do it right. he's so iconic and meaningful to many of us.

our 450 ip champs are not toys!


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Aakesh

Senior Member

09-08-2013

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Originally Posted by MarineRevenge View Post
the last set of changes to garen we're really good, hes in a great spot right now.

too bad they want to mess with it some more, just hoping they do it right. he's so iconic and meaningful to many of us.

our 450 ip champs are not toys!

Going take 2 or 3 try's be for they get it right this is riot games we are talking about.


Only thing that needs to be fix is his ult and passive (just my opinion)


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JLU6

Member

09-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
Hi MarineRevenge,
My vision for Garen is that he is a relatively low mobility fighter (unchanged) with low combat ranges (unchanged) who a) is more or less immune to poke damage, b) inflicts immense damage to anyone within his reach, and c) if forced out of a fight but not killed, will rapidly regenerate health to return to the fray for cleanup duty. Think of him as an inverted Mundo/Singed – lower in-combat sustain but dramatically higher out of combat sustain. Pre-fight, Garen should walk in front of Nidalee spears and /laugh. Within fights, Garen should cleave a path through the mid-line, force the enemy ADC so far out of the fight that they cannot participate, turn and shut down the enemy mage or tank, execute the other while at 5% life himself, then solo dragon while his team takes an inhibitor.
As a final note, this isn’t just about Garen. .
Yeah, but the thing is, the other team, has at least one cc, which can either be slows, or stun, etc.

(If not, then I don't know what they're doing.)

With all that cc, all it takes is either aoe cc to completely shut down anything Garen does, or a slow after he Qs.

Even when he does reach the ADC, he will just get destroyed by the other team while attempting to do any damage in the face of Hard CC or he will not do any damage at all while tanking hard cc.

Either way, he doesn't seem that good at all.

Others: "But if he's fed, he's unstoppable."

You could say that for many others too. He's not an assassin either, and he doesn't have the greatest mobility, and on top of that, he either does really lack luster damage while tanking things, or he does a lot of damage, after he gets stunned for at least 2 seconds, which if he's building damage, will easily spell his death.

Not to mention he can't close any distances on demand. Plus, armor can counter his "burst".

Darius can do the tanking part better, but he can do magic and physical damage to everyone, while being able to tank, and reducing the ADC's AS after landing his W.

If he's peeled well, he can still rip up the frontline with his abilites and his E passive, and finishing people off with R, or even using it as a desperate gap closer to finish with a Q, etc.

Imop, Garen was made for the old league of legends.

The fact that he's made to stomp into the front lines, without a passive and a "tanky buff" for only 6 seconds while some of his other abilities try to focus on damage makes him quite bad, especially when all it takes is one stun, to end everything for him, whether it be his life, or his lead on the ADC.

If you really wanted to repel the ADC from the fight, Assassins can do the job perfectly fine and survive too, and even doing AoE damage on a lesser scale, since so many Assassin that are made for killing a single target have so much AoE damage.

Tl;Dr

Garen is not useful.

If he tanks, Darius can outtank him by killing the aggressors faster and reducing their AS
If he tries to go for ADC, he faces a load of problems, something someone like Kha Zix faces less of a problem with. Plus Garen can't close spaces instantly.
Hard CC is a major problem, considering the fact that his job is supposed to be tanking and repelling the ADC. You can't repel or tank, when you're trying to reach the ADC, the only advantage is you eating up hard cc. Darius can eat hard cc and kill you, and maybe your team.
Garen is not updated to fit into this current game. He was made when Hard CC was used by less than half the champs.


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JLU6

Member

09-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineRevenge View Post
the last set of changes to garen we're really good, hes in a great spot right now.

too bad they want to mess with it some more, just hoping they do it right. he's so iconic and meaningful to many of us.

our 450 ip champs are not toys!
Not being able to do anything with his Q, Pasive, E, and Late Game is not a great spot to be in.

You can't even lane with him, considering his only damage attack will push the lane.

He can be kited more than a tank, which is quite ironic. (Amumu can close spaces better than him.)


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Atyres

Senior Member

09-09-2013

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Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
As a final note, this isn’t just about Garen. We’re looking closely at our fighters as a class for season 4, individually and as a class with the goal of making the top lane experience more enjoyable – (while being in it and after emerging from it).
Then you're gonna need to take things like BotRK and Gauntlet away from ADC's, cause as long as a few key ADC's can create the kite fest from hell for a good chunk of the fighter community, you are never going to truly make them viable. You're gonna end up having a "ah thats cute, back to normals" champ on your hands and not something competitive. Even with gap closer's a lot of the fighters are having trouble keeping up with ADC's who rush BotRK and the blue build that employs Gauntlet.


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Thefeos

Recruiter

09-09-2013

How do you have that circle of autoattack showing for you, OP?


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeos View Post
How do you have that circle of autoattack showing for you, OP?
hover over your attack damage stat in the UI. its been there for some time now.


as for the changes, they wont make it to live. ive read on the pbe forums, that the crit chance is even just 1% to 3% due to a coding error.