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So, you know the whole elo hell thing, right?

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Dunkmaster Isaac

Junior Member

08-27-2013

I've been trapped between Bronze IV and Bronze II since the beginning of the season due to some very bad preseason games when everything was just very off-balanced in a few aspects, and I've been you know holding my head up and trying to persevere and make it out of low MMR and into at the very least mid silver where I was last season. Well, I've been going at this nearing on what, 8 months? maybe 9 since the start of S3? I'm just starting to get frustrated for understandable reasons.

Before everyone states "Oh well you're clearly just **** and need to accept it", My mentality is that I belong in Bronze V and am lucky to be where I am, even though a lot of the people I play with regularly tell me otherwise. I've tried looking at various gameplay guides and using those in game, I'm CSing fairly well, I don't make stupid plays, although sometimes we all make a mistake now and again, and I get blamed for not assisting said stupid plays. I never fight with my teammates or flame, nor do I fight for lane roles, and I am well played in all manners of roles, as I have been playing for two years I believe. I complement my teammates, or when they mess up, try to help them not repeat the same mistakes, yet I'm still trapped in this win/loss/win/loss cycle.

I played ranked matches for 12 hours straight yesterday, starting in Bronze II at 13 Lp. I made it as high as 48 LP, and at the 12 hour mark, I had lost 5 Lp from what I had started with. Now, I'm all for if you are a good player, you will be carried out of low elo and into higher divisions, but what has been puzzling myself and a good number of friends, is why I am still at such a low position after this long, despite my attempts to make it out? Now, the only time I generally outright feed, is being camped by a jungler, but I know to ward and all that so that isn't the problem. It's the fact that one of the other lanes have fed them to a point where they are able to tower dive me no problem, despite my efforts. Even with all of the evasive techniques I have practiced over my two years this happens still.

From what I have been seeing lately, in my division's games, you generally have one team do superb, and the other team do absolutely horribly. There are games where I am able to carry, and I'm fairly fed, but our team either has a silly comp, no communication, or the other players either aren't skilled enough with their champion, or just refuse to cooperate in tandem to try and work as a team. Now, in S2, I saw a lot of this in Silver elo, but it wasn't as bad as it is now. I was still able to win enough games to generally raise my elo, and I had made it to the higher end of mid Silver elo by the end of the season. My bad preseason games have had me trapped in this frustrating place known as Bronze tier elo, yet I'm seeing all of these diamond, platinum, and gold players using smurfs and completely stomping through bronze and silver, and most times gold. Now, I am not claiming to be as good as that, but, the friends that I play with the most regularly, and generally the team I play with when we do premade 5s in normal, the lowest of them besides myself is Silver IV, yet I never hinder them when they play as I should be if my skills are as bad as my MMR says they are, and in most times I am our main carry. Now, I've got around 1400 normals played, and maybe 100 ranked games played this season, partly from myself taking a few months hiatus to cool off from the frustration I'm finding at climbing out of this division.

Anyhow, sorry for the wall of text, but what do you guys think about it all?


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AsheGetsGanked

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Sounds like you're getting elo ****ed lol. I'm in the same boat lol. And I do agree most games in Bronze are very uneven, rarely do I see a game be decided in the final moments.


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Vepenar

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Dunkmaster Isaac:
I've been trapped between Bronze IV and Bronze II since the beginning of the season due to some very bad preseason games when everything was just very off-balanced in a few aspects, and I've been you know holding my head up and trying to persevere and make it out of low MMR and into at the very least mid silver where I was last season. Well, I've been going at this nearing on what, 8 months? maybe 9 since the start of S3? I'm just starting to get frustrated for understandable reasons.

Before everyone states "Oh well you're clearly just **** and need to accept it", My mentality is that I belong in Bronze V and am lucky to be where I am, even though a lot of the people I play with regularly tell me otherwise. I've tried looking at various gameplay guides and using those in game, I'm CSing fairly well, I don't make stupid plays, although sometimes we all make a mistake now and again, and I get blamed for not assisting said stupid plays. I never fight with my teammates or flame, nor do I fight for lane roles, and I am well played in all manners of roles, as I have been playing for two years I believe. I complement my teammates, or when they mess up, try to help them not repeat the same mistakes, yet I'm still trapped in this win/loss/win/loss cycle.

I played ranked matches for 12 hours straight yesterday, starting in Bronze II at 13 Lp. I made it as high as 48 LP, and at the 12 hour mark, I had lost 5 Lp from what I had started with. Now, I'm all for if you are a good player, you will be carried out of low elo and into higher divisions, but what has been puzzling myself and a good number of friends, is why I am still at such a low position after this long, despite my attempts to make it out? Now, the only time I generally outright feed, is being camped by a jungler, but I know to ward and all that so that isn't the problem. It's the fact that one of the other lanes have fed them to a point where they are able to tower dive me no problem, despite my efforts. Even with all of the evasive techniques I have practiced over my two years this happens still.

From what I have been seeing lately, in my division's games, you generally have one team do superb, and the other team do absolutely horribly. There are games where I am able to carry, and I'm fairly fed, but our team either has a silly comp, no communication, or the other players either aren't skilled enough with their champion, or just refuse to cooperate in tandem to try and work as a team. Now, in S2, I saw a lot of this in Silver elo, but it wasn't as bad as it is now. I was still able to win enough games to generally raise my elo, and I had made it to the higher end of mid Silver elo by the end of the season. My bad preseason games have had me trapped in this frustrating place known as Bronze tier elo, yet I'm seeing all of these diamond, platinum, and gold players using smurfs and completely stomping through bronze and silver, and most times gold. Now, I am not claiming to be as good as that, but, the friends that I play with the most regularly, and generally the team I play with when we do premade 5s in normal, the lowest of them besides myself is Silver IV, yet I never hinder them when they play as I should be if my skills are as bad as my MMR says they are, and in most times I am our main carry. Now, I've got around 1400 normals played, and maybe 100 ranked games played this season, partly from myself taking a few months hiatus to cool off from the frustration I'm finding at climbing out of this division.

Anyhow, sorry for the wall of text, but what do you guys think about it all?


I had the same problem, when the new system hit I was placed in bronze 3, and floated between B3-B1 for nearly 6 months. 3 months from then i'm sitting at silver 2 now (still terrible IK), but the one thing i found is even if you make 0 mistakes in your own play there is still more you have to do.
Since i don't have much time i can only say a few things. 1 of them is since it seems like you play a lot of jungle. learn Zac, he is one of the best junglers right now, long range ganks, you can avoid wards easily, and very disruptive but still does respectable dmg, and Nasus. Not as good at ganking as most other junglers, but the amount of dragon control you get is generally worth it.


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Dunkmaster Isaac

Junior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Vepenar:
I had the same problem, when the new system hit I was placed in bronze 3, and floated between B3-B1 for nearly 6 months. 3 months from then i'm sitting at silver 2 now (still terrible IK), but the one thing i found is even if you make 0 mistakes in your own play there is still more you have to do.
Since i don't have much time i can only say a few things. 1 of them is since it seems like you play a lot of jungle. learn Zac, he is one of the best junglers right now, long range ganks, you can avoid wards easily, and very disruptive but still does respectable dmg, and Nasus. Not as good at ganking as most other junglers, but the amount of dragon control you get is generally worth it.



I handle Nasus pretty well, but I've not tried Zac out yet. I bought him when he came out, but I'm going to have to try and pick up his playstyle.


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Tsunami Surf

Member

08-27-2013

Making mistakes, from the huge disastrous throws to the smallest mis-clicks can change a game, and that's the BIG difference between pros and low elo players, other than knowledge of the game overall and CSing techniques. In example, I am a Bronze player, I just started playing the game nearly 8 months ago. I obsessively watch streams and LCS (NA and EU), I study the pros to better myself, but back to my point, yesterday playing and Varus against a Vayne, Thresh lane, my support and I get Vayne and Thresh to 100ish HP a piece, they are running for their lives, I try to make the Pr0L33t69xx420 play and flash into Q range and snipe them, greedily I go for the Q in the middle of them to pick up the OH SO PRO 5 min double kill, the Q whiffs, I get a Thresh lantern to the face, and Leona chases to save me, double kill Vayne. Now instantly I knew that was a bad decision and regretted it, the smart play would have been to let them B, take all the CS and roam, but that play snowballed the lane and I got trashed against a gold player who I clearly could hold my own against but my mistake cost me the lane. Hope you find this insightful and not just a low elo story but that's my take on a BIG difference between high and low elo players, among MANY other things obviously.


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BROSEPHIROTH

Senior Member

08-27-2013

If you're really better than bronze (which I heavily doubt) then if you want to win games you can't just settle for not losing your lane. You have to go and win the other lanes for your team too. And if you're better than bronze, that should be no problem right??


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Rylecx22

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Regardless of what people say, there is an elo hell. While logically it makes sense that your team would be more likely to win with you (assumed better player) on it, in reality it makes no sense as one player can throw a whole game. I have had the same issue, used to main top/ jungle but you can't carry hard enough from those spot (too many games where all 3 lanes lose). So I went to mid, even with speed boots to gank all lanes and do the junglers job, even sharing kills on purpose to adc, I still lose. Tons of games with afks, intentional trolls, and even 6 straight games now where I'm +7 on kdr with same assists as kills and I still lose. Yes I can farm better but when I ward, I carry, and team still continues to feed, or doesn't target correctly there is no way to win. Even worse with the broken MMR system that takes 25 pts on ever loss and only gives 10 or less on wins


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Dunkmaster Isaac

Junior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
BROSEPHIROTH:
If you're really better than bronze (which I heavily doubt) then if you want to win games you can't just settle for not losing your lane. You have to go and win the other lanes for your team too. And if you're better than bronze, that should be no problem right??


Theoretically, you're right, but it gets to a point where unless you're a specific character meant for hard carrying, you can't do much if the enemy has any type of cc. You could theoretically be a 20/0/10 Hecarim, and a single stun can completely demolish that for you.

Yes, single players CAN carry whole teams sometimes, I mean look at NIP for christ's sake lol, but unless you're talking to the team and communicating and they are understanding and communicating back, very rarely are you going to be able to pull this off. Think about it, you have 5 random people grouped together, most believing they deserve to be in gold or better, and they refute any proof that shows that they do not. This leads to them playing for THEIR best interests as opposed to the TEAM'S best interests.

For example, you have a Singed just pushing top lane all day and he gets both towers in his lane, but then continues to farm. You and the rest of the team are asking him to please come to mid lane for the imminent teamfight, but he doesn't respond or communicate, and continues to push, believing that the four of you will be fine against the full enemy team, and has his eyes set on the final lane tower and the inhib. Well, your 4 is doing okay against the enemy team, but you can't quite win because you're lacking in numbers as well as the potential teamfight ability that Singed can give. Singed continues to farm the top lane, as your group of 4 is slowly defeated fully and wiped out, leaving only him trying to push top, then promptly being killed by all five enemies and letting them score an ace. He then blames you for losing the teamfight, regardless of the fact that his influence would have possibly turned it around drastically.

Now, yes, in some cases you are thought to be able to carry yourself out of bronze and silver if you're better than that, but that can be just as much of a myth as elo hell. I will say for a fact, that sometimes I'm faced up against people who know damn well what they are doing with their champ and lane tactics sometimes even in Bronze II, hinting that they have played the game for a very long while, and they still remain in the position I am. Sometimes you get players who to you appear to be either stupid or unskilled and you completely roll the game.


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obnoxiousplayz

Junior Member

08-27-2013

There is a huge difference in being good at particular champions in the game (read laning phase and champion mechanics) and being good at the overall game of league of legends. I have seen bronze players be incredibly good at 1-2 champions in lane phase because they either play them a lot or their kit meshes really well with their playstyle. The issue is if you don't take this advantage to other lanes and makes plays happen for your team then you are only helping your own gold totals and then it is your job to basically carry 1v5 (which usually doesn't happen unless you are stupidly fed, 15-1,10-0, etc.). In regards to jungle ganks if you know the jungler can tower dive you, and you can't protect your turret without dying ROAM SOMEWHERE ELSE. Their sending 2 people after you so call that out and make a play somewhere, if they send 2 top, take dragon 4v3 or 5v3. Or push mid turret, do something so that instead of dying and losing a turret, you lose a turret and take a drag, or kills, or both kills and a turret. You dying to lose a turret anyway is a bad decision.

TL;DR: Bronze games are typically stagnant in lane phase for too long, you need to roam to press advantages and dying to jungler ganks is your fault.


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Dunkmaster Isaac

Junior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
obnoxiousplayz:
There is a huge difference in being good at particular champions in the game (read laning phase and champion mechanics) and being good at the overall game of league of legends. I have seen bronze players be incredibly good at 1-2 champions in lane phase because they either play them a lot or their kit meshes really well with their playstyle. The issue is if you don't take this advantage to other lanes and makes plays happen for your team then you are only helping your own gold totals and then it is your job to basically carry 1v5 (which usually doesn't happen unless you are stupidly fed, 15-1,10-0, etc.). In regards to jungle ganks if you know the jungler can tower dive you, and you can't protect your turret without dying ROAM SOMEWHERE ELSE. Their sending 2 people after you so call that out and make a play somewhere, if they send 2 top, take dragon 4v3 or 5v3. Or push mid turret, do something so that instead of dying and losing a turret, you lose a turret and take a drag, or kills, or both kills and a turret. You dying to lose a turret anyway is a bad decision.

TL;DR: Bronze games are typically stagnant in lane phase for too long, you need to roam to press advantages and dying to jungler ganks is your fault.


Never said that jungler ganks resulting in my death were not my fault, sorry if my wording was bad there. I was meaning a 6/0 Volibear with a Warmog's at ten minutes diving my tower. Hard as **** to escape from that. He's such a pubstomp at low elo.


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