Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Itsmedemo

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I'd actually really like that change. Some sort of, "Recently attacked you from brush, is revealed while within that brush."

I think the current global "you're revealed right now" particle (Nidalee, Caitlyn, Kog'Maw) is okay. It's not used so often that it would overlap itself much, but the particle is pretty intuitive, especially since it is used in other parts of the game.
The problem with that particle is that it means "The entire enemy team can see you", not "What you're doing is revealing yourself to anybody within vision range".


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Mirelyght

Senior Member

09-14-2013

the line of sight issues in bushes has been an obvious problem for ages. i find it hard to believe that only just now with this video that riot has become aware of this.


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Empyrius

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Senior Member

09-14-2013

Can we name the next patch Yakaru's visual update patch


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Jasado

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Senior Member

09-14-2013

I think it's the worst thing in the world where you see an enemy ward a bush you have warded, you buy an oracles, and you cannot see the enemy ward until you are in the bush. There have been many situations where (Even in ranked) this has lead to the enemy team maintaining an edge because if I go into the bush, I would die or be in extreme danger - but I am unable to hit the ward with a ranged champion, KNOWING it's there, HAVING oracles, and a WARD giving vision of "there", while being IN RANGE of oracles. I feel an oracles user should be able to "share" vision with any allied wards vision also inside the vision circle, like a Venn diagram.


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

09-14-2013

54367

The revealing or lack of revealing makes sense. An ability that targets an enemy champ reveals while a skill shot, or non-targeting ability does not. I've sat in the bush and lobed skill shots off map before to charge up a tear but wouldn't be able to do this at all if they revealed me.

There is also the issue of it being a straight nerf to some champs. Nunu's ult is impossible to get off at all against some teams without bush cover. His ult had to be buffed before because of how hard it is to channel the entire time. Nid would instantly stop being viable as a support at all if all people had to do to dodge her q was move when she becomes visible (not to mention the suggestions on how to play her would have to change since it mentions throwing spears from bush cover). Gragas being most commonly mid lane wouldn't be to bad off with his q but what about his w. It isn't an aggressive spell but it buffs him to be aggressive. taric's dazzle reveals but dos shattering his shield reveal him?

Anyway I'm always a fan of smoothing out the game mechanics (some champs I don't play just because they aren't smooth) but I'm cautious about changing mechanics. I know you guys will test the theory before implementing it so just keep in mind that it would be a nerf to some champs.


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UgIierBetty

Senior Member

09-14-2013

The invisible Nidalee spears need to go.


However the Nunu ult is just so classic: if anything was left alone, leave that. Even when I get caught by it it's hilarious.

It would kind of suck if it got removed :P


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Pencillum

Member

09-14-2013

I think that:

1. Autoattacking and targeted abilities should reveal.

2. Skillshots should not reveal, but should be shown as soon as the projectile moves out of the brush.

3. Channeled abilities should not reveal until the channel is finished.


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No CS For You

Senior Member

10-23-2013

no


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Meatzombie

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pencillum View Post
I think that:

1. Autoattacking and targeted abilities should reveal.

2. Skillshots should not reveal, but should be shown as soon as the projectile moves out of the brush.

3. Channeled abilities should not reveal until the channel is finished.
This, 1000x this.


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Fawar

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Personnaly, I find it unintuitive that some spell reveal you and some other does not. Everytime you will need to learn and remember which are dangerous to use and which are not and well this isn't not 'real' enough.

Here is my idea, but for it to be understood properly here is some context.

What are Brushes?

To me it's tall grass, jungle type with similar dynamic to Corn fields.

What does that mean to me?

Simply that when you enter the Corn Field(CF)/Brushes, you are visibile at the begining and when you get a little deeper, you disappear. It also means that when something is shoot from inside the CF/Brushes you should not see from where it came nor from whom. All you would see is what happened, IE Explosion, AOE, Aura but not the shooter. Which is not always true, let's say you get close to the brushes/CF without being in it. You will see a bit in it or, you will see who's shooting at you from the sides of the brushes (Someone could enter, go deep, go back to the side sneaked and you would not see him, but when he starts shooting is not deep enough not to be seen)


Now that you have the idea explained, here is how I would add it to LoL.

Entering the brushes

There would be a fading over 1-2 sec to disappear in it. It would not be automatic has it is now.
This would make juking by entering the brush undoable and would make a chase, a chase, not some kind of sorcery.

Skillshot,SpellShot,AOE, Ranged Auto-Attack, Passive (Lulu's), Runaan's hurricane

The caster/shooter would not be reveal on those actions. The actions itself would be displayed at all time. Each of thoses actions would have some kind of revealing radius. Exemple : Brand cast his Pillar of Flame in the brushes, it would reveal what is in it and a bit on the edge of it not the brush entirely. AOE actions would have a proportionaly revealing radius and target action would have either target revealing or smaler/really smaler revealing.

Sides revealing

I was talking about depth earlier on, to me if the champion is near the edge of the brush while being inside it should be reveal when shooting anything OUTSIDE OF THE BRUSH, if it's in there is no reason to reveal him following the logic I talked about earlier on. Once reaveal, there would be the entering fading triggering.

AURAS

To me auras have visual effects on the champions receiving it. It would then be wrong to not display it because the aura's caster is in a brush. It would also be a sell-off for supports and jungler ganking or anyone using one while being in a brush. I was thinking about adding an effect to ward which would negate aura in their vision range?


Melee moves/autoattacks

Are you a fighter or not? Autoreaveal on every of those actions + triggering the entering brush effect.

Linked spells

I will explain this part by comparing Leblanc's etheral chains/Blitz's grab to Skarner's impale which are exactly the same to me.
If range is long, it would reveal the link but not the champion. IE Skarner would reveal himself only because he is close to his target, while blitz and leblanc would only reveal their arm/chain. There is a bit more to it. If blitz or leblanc would be near the edges of the brush, it would reveal them has if they were firing at skill/spell shot has discussed earlier and triggering the entering fading effect.

That would cover brushes mecanics to me, but I would like them to be less static.

I would like them to be dynamic and reacts to what is happening.

Brushes being trampled

I think that brushes should feel the fact that it is being walked on too much. Let's take Alistar. Big fat minautor moving back and forth in the brush. To me those should at some point be trampled and not hide anyone anymore. It would allow some new play has brush hiding's denial and brush hiding being limited at some point. Once trampled it would trigger the regrowing of those brushes, there could also be an item to instantly regrow it. Charge skills like hecarim would auto-trample the brushes. Also, the bigger the champion the faster it tramples the brushes. Brushes could be partially trampled and not fully trampled every single time.

Brushes being destroyed

Same has being trampled, but it would happen because of destructive spells like Brand's pillar. IMO it should also be able to catch in fire and be extinguished with water spells (nami's ult?) It would trigger a longer regrow has the brushes is destroyed and not trampled.

Brushes being knocked back

For the duration of the skill it would be some how pushed back (Crop Symbol like). Talking about Janna's tornado, ult and simmilar skills.

Brushes regrowing
Over a period of time the brushes would regros and reactivate it's hiding skill.

Brushes dimensions

With those adjustments I think some brushes would need to be bigger or have different forms.

What do you think summoners?