Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Arance

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the current global "you're revealed right now" particle (Nidalee, Caitlyn, Kog'Maw) is okay. It's not used so often that it would overlap itself much, but the particle is pretty intuitive, especially since it is used in other parts of the game.
Iffy not this, honestly. Overlap may not be super common but enough that I wouldn't want them to share particles. Plus that icon also signals players to be careful about standing near and revealing their allies as well, which wouldn't apply in the brush case.


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GodKilleR 999

Senior Member

08-26-2013

@Yakaru, to fix the bottom bushes sometimes not showing what's in them even when you have vision you could make it so bushes can see through walkable terrain and back into themselves (back in the days this would cause you to see through another bush as well as the one you were standing in) well it should work in that fashion except for the part where it could see through other bushes.

Here's a rough image to give you a visual example: black is bush white walkable terrain points are just wards to give you an idea, with the current situation the pink couldn't see the green ward even though they're technically in the same bush (this is an exaggeration of the problem in bot bushes) so you'd have to make it so the vision of the ward going through the white part doesn't stop it from seeing the green if they're in the same bush.
Attachment 767760


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Romeemperor

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Xelnath has confirmed this to be a bug to me; I'm going to investigate it and see if this can be fixed

IIRC, that's not a bug. That's what happens when LoS is lost when attempting to use a skill with a cast time. This is one of the cooler idiosyncrasies in the game and I would be bummed if you removed it. This is how the game has worked since launch.


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A Bad Dragon

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Yi is UP View Post
Personal opinion:
Skillshot should not reveal the users.

But point and click spells should reveal the user on cast.
thats not personal...that is how it works now.....


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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
My gut instincts are that any 'aggressive' action should probably reveal you -- if a spell is dealing damage, slows, roots, or stuns, for example, it should reveal the caster. This is an easy to understand rule and is very easy to understand and explain to new players, but I'm not sure about this, what do you guys think?

Thanks much!
~Yakaru
I'd agree. But at the same time I fear about wind up like nunu's ult. I definately don't think they should reveal you. I feel like it's one of the nice trick for nunu/fiddle. I hope you see it that way too.


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KingofMaelstroms

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Here's something to ponder, if you auto attack/use a spell or do something that would reveal you in a bush to the enemy should any teammates in the bush with you get revealed as well if they are close enough to you?


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IICrowII

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I think a skill shot revealing or not revealing based on whether it lands its hit is incredibly counterintuitive. Launching the attack is what intuitively lets the enemy line up the shot to determine where you were, getting splattered by the attack has no reason to carry information with it.

I think all spell casts should reveal you, as well as item actions like placing wards and activating Shurelya's. You're stealthy in a brush because you're not making that much noise and movement and whatever; anything beyond simple walking is potentially combat relevant and should result in the opponent realizing you're there.

The only exceptions I might make are abilities which themselves create stealth.


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nomadd

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned - but someone else revealing themselves (some ranged support AAs from the brush) shouldn't reveal other players in the brush.

On another note - any projectile, regardless of vision, should become visible as they enter a players field of vision. I'm tired of Morganas and Nidalees walking just into fog/brush and having their skill shot completely disappear. It doesn't make sense for your vision (or lack there of) to have any bearing on projectiles or anything otherwise created by something you couldn't momentarily see.

edit: It shouldn't necc. reveal the player, but for the most part, the effect should be visible.


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Khyphenris

Member

08-26-2013

As a Shaco player I'm highly annoyed at the fact that anyone can see you coming when you use your q ability Deceive. If you are good enough or at least you pay enough attention you will always know if he is coming in to gank while invisible. That puff of smoke can be seen anywhere in enemy fog of war. In this unlikely scenario I'll come up with here is that you can q in baron pit at like 4 minutes in and the bottom lane if they were looking at baron pit for some unknown reason will see that puff of smoke. Hell I remember specifically in a match when I was Ashe and enemy jungle was a Shaco, he q'd in from river which was pinked by them so he knew there was no ward but I Volley'd him while he was stealthed and walked away.


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Pryotra

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

I am curious how all this would effect placable buddies, like heimer turrets or shaco boxes.

When Shaco goes AP, the old bush 'o boxes tactic should only reveal the boxes while they are firing, regardless of sight in the bush. If I'm right, currently they are only revealed while there is vision in the bushes, whether or not they are firing only influences what kind of vision. Also, a lesser known fact is that when you place a ward in said nest, the ward will tank all the shot of the boxes till it stealths, then the boxes die. The ward doesn't count damage from the boxes, so this is a 75g method of DESTROYING AP shaco. Less if you are someone with a Sightstone.

However, looking at the new Heimer turrets and their skill shot, should they really be revealed for autoing creeps? or only when they use the skillshot lazer? or both? What about when they are disabled due to lack of nearby heimer? Honestly, As a heimer player, I think that the turrets should be revealed only when attacking and active, and the skill shot should show, but not reveal the turret. If inactive, they shouldn't self reveal(wards/ enemy champs could still see them if in the bush, but if they don't have vision in the brush they should not see the turrets while heimer is away).