Discussing Zac- Balance without changing his playstyle or losing his individuality

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

TL;DR is at the bottom
I was thinking today about the issues with Zac, and to me it boils down to a rather simple fact-
Zac doesn't have to pay, a, SINGLE cost for his almost infinite sustain or his revive on death passive.

Both of him come to him for the price of Free, brought to you by two passives. This is inherently strong due to the numbers involved, and using weaker numbers across teh board would be very overhanded.

Instead what we need to do is boil down who and what Zac is, what new and exciting things he brings ot the table, and how to keep all of that.

In short terms zac is a CC tankbot, who is incredibly tanky due to the massive sustain in his kit, and deals a strong amount of consistent damage throughout a fight.

The fun and new things Zac brings to the table is Cell Division. The ability to heal himself is fun because it adds a fun 'step on the blobs' minigame in lane to interupt his sustain. The 'must kill him while he's down' minigame is also fun, hunting out (and smiting, god i love smiting those) bloblets of his corpsey self adds a unique dynamic to the game and more decisions to make in teamfights.

Zac makes 0 choices with Cell Division as it is right now. The only decision he has to make is 'is my passive up? OK LETS TOWER DIVE.' There is no thought about 'oh no i need to be able to pop my sustain at the right time' which is typically the counterplay to these champions (see Olaf's W for example... obvisouly S2 olaf not current olaf).

How can we keep his sustainy bloblet playstyle, add more decisions, and counterplay?

Change his 'passive' to JUST "Upon taking fatal damage, Zac splits into 4 bloblets that attempt to recombine. If any bloblets remain after 8 seconds, he will revive with an amount of Health depending on the Health of the surviving bloblets. Each bloblet has a percentage of Zac's maximum Health, Armor and Magic Resistance. This ability has a 5 minute cooldown."
In other words, he has ONE passive, and that is the GA passive.

Now his W- Unstable Matter
Zac's Body Erupts, damaging nearby enemies and dropping chunks of himself on the battlefield. These bloblets can be picked up to restore 5%/7.5%/10%/12.5%/15% of his maximum health.
NOW we tie in Zac's sustain with one of his abilities, it gets stronger by making the decision to level that ability, AND by itemizing HP. Two decisions that can be made. Using this Ability early in a fight while blow his sustain too quickly when he doesn't need it, possibly being on CD when it's needed.
When in a tough lane Zac now has to decide whether he needs to sustain himself up by getting extra points in W vs extra points in Q for harassment.
As a jungler he again needs to choose between sustain, or his gank power (e) although it should be strong enough that a well timed W should allow him to stay in the jungle almost indefinitely.

Now, a change to his ultimate-
Whenever Zac bounces and hits an enemy champion, he drops a bloblet as per his W, which allows him some sustain immediately after initiating the fight. This should probably reach some kind of maximum number of possible blobs dropped that can scale with rank. Possibly 2/3/4.

With these changes tuning his sustain and damage is a lot easier. We can then see if his damage needs to be nerfed or his sustain changed, shifting power around to both aspects of him depending on the needs of the game. There is now risk/reward to his sustain since he will need to be in melee range to aquire it (assuming we count Q as ranged).

TL;DR- Move the sustain mechanic to a single ability, preferably his W so that it requires a decision on the part of a well played Zac vs the infinite 0 decision making of current Zac. Leave the GA proc as is.

Let the bounce commence


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RexSaur

Senior Member

08-24-2013

This is a very good idea.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Helkaizer

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-24-2013

As someone who plays ZAC I think this would make his gameplay harder, but more rewarding.
/support.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades Of Fate View Post
As someone who plays ZAC I think this would make his gameplay harder, but more rewarding.
/support.
That is EXACTLY the goal my friend


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Bump. Really guys, lets talk about this...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Durzaka

Senior Member

08-24-2013

The problem is, a change like this DESTROYS his jungle.

His early clear will be next to impossible with only one source of sustain. Sure this definitely helps with a mid/late game Zac and a lane Zac, but it puts jungle zac into non-viability.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Durzaka-
I'm not convinced it would, and if it does mean he gets to 1/2 hp once in a while... why is that a bad thing?
Or the idea that picking up his blob immediately is actually bad, or even starting a camp pressing W is non optimal because you need to be able to take the side effect of the heal after receiving some damage.
It would be a change from just insta spamming spells, but if the #s are fine tuned it should work, IF you are paying attention to what the skill does, and when the best time to use it is.
I.e. when you have learned to play the champion and understand its abilities well enough to make valid gameplay CHOICES.
Zac's kit is ENTIRELY devoid of choice, with LOTS of gain from his lack of choices and minimal risk.

And again- Why does he need to be at 3/4-100% the entire time? lvl 1-3 should be dangerous... for all junglers...
Alternatively- why can't we make him choose between just clearing buffs then ganking, maxing E/Q first for the gank potential vs maxing W and being able to sustain/farm the jungle?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

shppy

Senior Member

08-24-2013

not bad in concept, but that 15% max hp is a bit heavy for his most spammable skill to have... I'd say make it something like 6/7/8/9/10%, and see how it feels with that.


That's, you know, assuming you want to keep his cds and costs the same... I mean, it's a bit much for him to simply rush spirit visage and another cdr item be able to spam W to heal 18% of his max hp every 2.4 seconds. Yes there is counterplay to the blobs, but even so, at level 18 with absolutely no other hp items that'd be a 450 hp heal every 2.4 seconds just from W alone... not to mention his ult would be able to heal him then for 72% max hp with no cost to him... i mean, compare that to Mundo's which happens over a much longer span of time, deals no damage, and has a substantial health cost.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shppy View Post
not bad, but that 15% max hp is a bit heavy for his most spammable skill to have... I'd say make it something like 6/7/8/9/10%, and see how it feels with that.


That's, you know, assuming you want to keep his cds and costs the same... I mean, it's a bit much for him to simply rush spirit visage and another cdr item be able to spam W to heal 18% of his max hp every 2.4 seconds. Yes there is counterplay to the blobs, but even so, at level 18 with absolutely no other hp items that'd be a 450 hp heal every 2.4 seconds

It might seem like a bit much, and it probably is, but since his sustain is his ONLY tanky ability currently, remember he has no armor/mr buff, no bonus HP from any ability, AND you can step on it to deny it from him, it might not be. But that can easily be number tuned, definitely more easily than his current state.
Note-As long as an early rank in it is beefy enough to let him jungle.