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[8/23/2013] Tentative PBE Changes & Discussion (3.11)

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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
Depending on how long ago that post was made, it might also have to do with the fact that we split our 3.11 patch up and some of the live balance changes intended for 3.11 were spliced into 3.10a - Master Yi being one of those. I currently do not see any Master Yi changes slated for 3.11 and Live Design is still watching the aftermath of 3.10a.

As for Fiora, I'll try to find the one who made those changes to get them to comment. It may be after the weekend.



I agree Kassadin is strong, and I'm currently playing in Plat. That being said, I don't think he's as completely broken as you present. The one thing that frustrates me is that he can get stomped in lane phase but still come out of it strong (for some strange reason even rushing Catalyst / Tear he does extraordinary damage).

Anyway, definitely something to keep an eye on. But you gotta stop with the crazy rhetoric or it'll be difficult to have a real discussion.


There's one thing I will agree with him on about Kass on all maps, and I do not believe it to be hyperbole.

Kassadin is terribly designed, especially in terms of counterplay. He might not be strong enough on Summoner's Rift to warrant nerfs, but his design has a lot of hidden power and false choices whenever a mage fights him. He is mainly held back by a poor laning phase and hard counters--which don't tend to fit Riot's balance philosophy.

He seems to me to deserve a rework.


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Riot Pwyff

Player Communications

Follow Riot Pwyff on Twitter

08-23-2013

Clarification for Fiora:

If Fiora can find a target while Blade Waltzing, she will always complete her Blade Waltz within its AoE range. Meaning if there is a revealed enemy in the brush, and she kills a target outside of it with Blade Waltz, she will switch targets to the brush target (and deal damage). If there is a stealthed or untargetable target nearby (and nobody else), she will jump to them instead to complete her Blade Waltz but will not deal damage (because she shouldn't). Basically this creates consistency with her ultimate where if her target should be hit or should take damage from Blade Waltz, she will complete it with absolute consistency (and no interruptions due to losing vision or stealth).


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Chaosos

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
Depending on how long ago that post was made, it might also have to do with the fact that we split our 3.11 patch up and some of the live balance changes intended for 3.11 were spliced into 3.10a - Master Yi being one of those. I currently do not see any Master Yi changes slated for 3.11 and Live Design is still watching the aftermath of 3.10a.

As for Fiora, I'll try to find the one who made those changes to get them to comment. It may be after the weekend.



I agree Kassadin is strong, and I'm currently playing in Plat. That being said, I don't think he's as completely broken as you present. The one thing that frustrates me is that he can get stomped in lane phase but still come out of it strong (for some strange reason even rushing Catalyst / Tear he does extraordinary damage).

Anyway, definitely something to keep an eye on. But you gotta stop with the crazy rhetoric or it'll be difficult to have a real discussion.


Maybe live should talk to MWAB and nome about Kassadin, seeing as Kass has been so powerful on Dominion.


Or, live could continue ignoring Dominion in favor of people with 'crazy rhetoric', and just keep ignoring a map you have made so many promises on. Map specific changes are a good start, but realistically the need points to otherwise hidden issues in the game (see: Jayce)


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Cya later Nerds

Senior Member

08-23-2013

well reducing his passive seems a tad harsh but reasonable why not just improve it in a way ?


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thresholden

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
Clarification for Fiora:

If Fiora can find a target while Blade Waltzing, she will always complete her Blade Waltz within its AoE range. Meaning if there is a revealed enemy in the brush, and she kills a target outside of it with Blade Waltz, she will switch targets to the brush target (and deal damage). If there is a stealthed or untargetable target nearby (and nobody else), she will jump to them instead to complete her Blade Waltz but will not deal damage (because she shouldn't). Basically this creates consistency with her ultimate where if her target should be hit or should take damage from Blade Waltz, she will complete it with absolute consistency (and no interruptions due to losing vision or stealth).


Hmm, going to have do some testing on this. What happens if you kill someone visible and jump to an enemy in the bush who is not invisible or untargetable but unrevealed? Since you jumped into the bush, you should have vision of it and deal damage. But since it was a "blind" jump, it shouldn't deal damage per the change.

The entire issue with bushes seems overly complicated. Still not sure whether bush jukes will or will not cancel the damage of her ultimate on the first strike (since its unseen). Personally, I'd just give Fiora vision of her ultimate bounce radius, like Elise's rappel, so bush jukes won't effect her ult at all.


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matrinox

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Quote:
AK MasterMason:
What is the point of having Live designers? You have all these Diamond 1 Riot employees, and a lot in other elo's. You can also watch competitive tournaments and see how broken Vayne and Kassadin are. Where are the nerfs? You guys seriously nerf Shen of all champions. I don't know about you but I've been watching OGN and they have been picking Shen.. he loses every single game. He loses lane, then the game.


Which OGN games?


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Xuelixon

Senior Member

08-23-2013

@riot pwyff
Recently, I've played sivir in a few games and I always love playing her..but I feel as if she has to rely on too much of her Q to get kills, not to mention her mana gain per level is very low. She wastes more mana than able to use her skills a lot. I hope you can do something to make it a bit more better. She's my fave girl champ :c


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pwndras

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Will draven lose all stacks upon death or will he continue to just lose half his stacks upon being killed? I must admit though the thought of being able to consume all my stacks at once sounds great


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Duffman316

Recruiter

08-23-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
Depending on how long ago that post was made, it might also have to do with the fact that we split our 3.11 patch up and some of the live balance changes intended for 3.11 were spliced into 3.10a - Master Yi being one of those. I currently do not see any Master Yi changes slated for 3.11 and Live Design is still watching the aftermath of 3.10a.


ah, that's rather disappointing to hear :/

not even putting ad ratios on meditate instead of an ap ratio he'll never use?


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Gidoru

Senior Member

08-23-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:

I agree Kassadin is strong, and I'm currently playing in Plat. That being said, I don't think he's as completely broken as you present. The one thing that frustrates me is that he can get stomped in lane phase but still come out of it strong (for some strange reason even rushing Catalyst / Tear he does extraordinary damage).

Anyway, definitely something to keep an eye on. But you gotta stop with the crazy rhetoric or it'll be difficult to have a real discussion.


Sorry but thats not 'crazy rhetoric'. He is a champion that literally has no counterplay. If you're an AP mage post 6 there is no interaction as there is nothing you can do to respond his combo. He teleports to you, silences you and slows you. You cannot react, you cannot trade. This is anti fun and extremely stupid. If thats not 'broken' i dont know what is.

Why should I be afraid to pick an AP mage if hes not banned? Why should a single champion hard an entire class of champions? If the OP was exaggerating, you're clearly downplaying the issue. In recent Morello post he outlined Riots design philosophy. That being that Riot strives to provide counterplay to champions. He further stated that Riot likes to shy away from hard counters. Well Kassadin is a hard counter, 2.6 second point and click silence that also does extremely high amounts of damage is ridiculous. So if this is the case why is Kassadin left untouched?

-No counterplay
-Not fun and very frustrating to play agaisnt
-Hard counters AP mages
-Frequently picked or banned
-Extremely strong and viable in competitive play

Explain to me why he isnt getting looked at The fact he is anti fun and has no counterplay should be reason enough.