I got Plat II playing almost exclusively Swain

First Riot Post
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Aeolian Symmetry

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Remove mana costs completely and add a similar function to how Rumble casts spells, however make it more fitting to his play style. It would add a lot more flexibility when building and would make Swain pretty comfortable to play.

Just make sure to balance out whatever he uses to cast spells after you do away with mana so he's not overpowered.


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Fubby3

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Still following this post just cause i'm interested in the discussion - but prolly not gonna do pointed responses to questions unless i see something that i can harmlessly jump in on.

And since i've still seen posts about it: Not reworking Swain. Please read the first post u.u

Still, it's given me a lot to think about for QoL changes/improvements that can be made to Swain players, since he's definitely on the clunkier side of things. Thanks for being so clear and concise dudes - i'm really feelin' the birdvibes
If you change anything I would suggest it having to do with E amp, R CD, or passive. Frankly I dont notice swain being very clunky, but I think a new passive would help, his current really adds nothing to the character.


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Ostar

Junior Member

08-26-2013

I like swain a lot but he does need a some Qol work.

1.I am not a big fan of his passive I would change it to a revers of singed passive. So Swain would gain additional mana equal to 25% of his maximum health (i am sure you would play with the numbers).what this would do is clear up swains build path a lot going Doran's Ring in to Rode of Ages in to Liandry's Torment then Rylai's Crystal Scepter would work out great and he could also build a little like Ryze going Spirit Visage,Sunfire Cape,Banshee's Veil, Warmog's Armor and being a super tanky unkillable damage over time cc champion.

2.His q Decrepify is fine i guess maybe a little mana cost love or %hp ratio on it would be nice with the passive changes.

3.His w Nevermove if hit should be grants vision if it already does not and maybe a little mana cost love because of the passive change.

4.His e Torment should refund some of the mana cost and or rest the cool down on kill to help is farm and wave clear a bit.

5.His r Ravenous Flock should should increase his movement speed or make him immune slows while active it sucks being kitted while it is on and also give him a escape option as well as a damage option.


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isitaspider

Member

08-26-2013

I don't understand why people are saying that they're having trouble getting to the back line of an enemy team, because, why are you even trying to get back there? I've always seen Swain as an AP anti-bruiser. That CC is godly (especially if you pick up rylai's, even though you'll run into insane mana issues) for peeling and protecting your adc.

Anyways, my personal thoughts on Swain,
Why does it feel like there aren't enough item slots in the game for everything I need? Roa, Hourglass, chalice/tear, Abyssal/Spirit Visage/Frozen Heart, Deathcap, Liandry's, etc. With other champs, I need like three items or less to hit my power spike. On Swain, I need like four/five, and HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A MID-GAME CHAMPION. This makes no sense to me. Oh, and that's not including QSS if my enemies know what they're doing and start stacking healing reduction.

Oh, and why does it feel like every other champ in the game who relies on healing is insane when you don't pick up healing reduction, and only ok when you do? Yet, for Swain, I'm doing decent without healing reduction, and then I'm just a straight up liability with healing reduction. There's nothing quite as annoying as having an MF apply grievous wounds every teamfight and just watching as I have to run away to make sure I'm not instagibbed. I'm supposed to be on the frontlines, yet her one ability negates everything I'm supposed to do as Swain. Swain doesn't have the base stats of a tank, can't really build pure tank and still do damage (unlike Zac and Sejuani), all he has is that ult. Yet, grievous wounds halves my ability to tank to the point that I can't do anything but run away and wait for grievous wounds to come off.

When I look at the other AP champs who also are supposed to tank, you can't really shut down their ability to tank as hard as Swain. Ryze? His tankiness comes from items and can build mana tank and still deal tons of damage. Vlad? While you can shut down his healing, you can't stop his passive. Plus, he doesn't need to buy mana items, so he can build just health, resistances, and AP. Also, I consider Annie a part of this category. She summons a several thousand health ally and has a shield to help her stand up to melee and a reliable stun. Swain? He has his ult which is countered by healing reduction and time. Have you ever silenced a Swain? Instagibbed. He has his ult on? Silence, kite, he's out of mana, instagibbed. He falls behind and can't get his items? Instagibbed.

Best moments as Swain? Definitely have to be clutch hourglass and healing up in the middle of a teamfight so I can jump right back into it. Landing a "blind" snare and turning the corner to see I hit the fleeing Teemo. Or, probably one of the gamechangers, seeing someone jump on my ADC and I snare them to save my ADC.

Fantasy of Swain? He's a freaking giant bird that spams laugh at your attempts to kill him. That feeling of being able to take on three people when fed and just constantly dish out damage without having to wait on some CD/rotation of spells is amazing from a mage perspective. What other mage dishes out damage at such a constant rate as Swain does?


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agelesser

Junior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Swain is a pretty powerful champion under the right circumstances, but is typically seen as unpopular. We generally attribute this to his 3 DoT spells and the one delayed skillshot, as deferred reward in our game are appreciated/valued less unless their power is pretty massive (think Death Mark)). That said, a few questions for you sir:

1. Do you feel like you don't have -enough- items to build? Which stats are most important to you as a Swain player? I've always felt like i needed Mana, Mana regen, Health, AP, CDR, Pen, and then Resists - and have often found it difficult to itemize overall.

2. Without buffing Swain (you can err on this a little), do you have any suggestions to make the lives of Swain players easier (QoL) or simply more fun? (PSA: We consider QoL typically as changes that smooth out a champion that aren't power-level focused - adding ratios, ranges, etc don't count typically)

3. What do you feel like is Swain's 'fantasy' as a game goes on - what do you feel defines him? Champions like Ezreal and Vayne want to dart around a fight dealing damage and kiting, Mages like Syndra and Veigar want to set up and then crush their opponent in one blow - what do you think is your 'I am Epic' moment for Swain?

3a. If you do have an endgame fantasy that you think fits Swain, do you think it's working out atm? Are there things you think we could do to improve on it?

(This isn't a precursor to a 'Let's Talk' thread or a Swain rework, just up late watching Gamescom and sincerely interested in what you'd answer as a Swain player.)

Let me know what you think.
Here's my little opinion http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3803412

And to conclude:
Here are some problems
1. Bad wave clearing
2. Too mana hungry in long team fights
3. Need too much issues to be strong(HP MP AP...etc)
4. The multi-character status right now only shines in limited status ( Huge money lead, LV lead, specified character composition etc.)

suggesstions
1. passive is limited hardly though out the game, maybe needs to be reworked?
2. too single target heavy, but lack of burst damage, maybe change skills into skill shot aoe??
3. need to build HP/MP/AP at least, not to mention other status like mana regen, armor... etc, Maybe can be fixed together with his passive?? OR even give a passive to his skills? like Cho'Gath's R or something?? like zyra's W??
4. not a tank, a mage or an assassin, a little bit conflict, maybe change the cast status(how the skill work ) like Akali's R (like bullet) or kassafin's E??


2.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I'm going to post something that is a larger more all-encompassing change that would help vastly with Swain's impactfulness:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3654854

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
One of the primary reasons Draven's passive got changed was because, and I quote,



You know why? Because non instant damage and heals (over time/delayed) have ZERO way to show the player their actual impact. Imagine if, after autoattacking 3x with his old passive, your enemy's health bar looked like this:

http://i.imgur.com/5D3jzNj.png


Or if when you used a health pot, it did this to show how much health you'd regain:

http://i.imgur.com/MceYyVA.png

Or if, on Zed, you saw an indicator of how much your ult mark was going to deal:

http://i.imgur.com/HcK5jsr.png

(specific colors to be determined by testing, these are examples)

That looks impactful, doesn't it? Strong, right? A lot easier to tell when you're actually kind of chunking people, while at the same time making it apparent for allies to focus you with heals.

Riot please. DoTs and non instant health changes are, in my opinion, one of the more interesting mechanics and yet at the same time most are to some degree overtuned because you have no information about exactly how much health they will be dealing. I know this has been floated before and it's somewhere in your queue as a low priority task, but please consider moving it up. Draven's passive change was very controversial, and while it may work out, what happens the next time a delayed damage or DoT gets nerfed or removed? Will it irreparably damage the next character? Champions are being nerfed because of a visibility issue, and that is ultimately a bad thing.

Make no mistake(s ), champions will need to be retuned if this gets implemented. But it's a retune worth doing. I strongly suspect Zed, for instance, would actually be able to have a bunch of power shifted out of his ultimate if its effect could be quantified.
Was written around the time you changed the Draven passive, but it has some application here (though you aren't looking to nerf swain).


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Fubby3

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I disagree with any drastic changes, hes a great character atm, no one like him. Minor things like making W give vision if it hits or making his passive different would be great though.


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DeathlySmoke

Member

08-26-2013

I hated swain till about 3 days ago, then i played him in ranked and won, played him 6 more times and only lost because i had a Internet issue and DCed. Hes a Monster.

But to get to the Point... Id like if his ult sent a bird to the target of my autos!

for example when im farming minions with my ult. i c the lil guy about to die so i AA him, becuase of my weak @$$ autos he lives... i watch as my ult hits 3 minions around me.... and my minion kills the minion i failed to kill.

Or in team fights then im trying to ripe a vayne apart i full combo her AA her... and my ult is sending crows into the closest tanks and bruiser.


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GangstaGehard

Member

08-26-2013

I am not trying to start **** against you or anything.
Just asking for your opinion really because
A Plat friend of mine who plays Swain a bunch rushes Chalice first, then Catalyst and Boots and ROA like any Swain should.

But after that he rolls a really tanky Swain through SV and Heart. Rabadons or DFG for damage if fed and Rylais only in crutch situations where you need even more health over RoA.
Also after RoA he typically sells the Chalice.

Yea I know not much different from yours
But as far as runes, he recommends hybrid pen. And masteries he rolls more down the Defense tree and 0 in Support

BTW, great guide. GJ on getting to Plat


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Fubby3

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GangstaGehard View Post
I am not trying to start **** against you or anything.
Just asking for your opinion really because
A Plat friend of mine who plays Swain a bunch rushes Chalice first, then Catalyst and Boots and ROA like any Swain should.

But after that he rolls a really tanky Swain through SV and Heart. Rabadons or DFG for damage if fed and Rylais only in crutch situations where you need even more health over RoA.
Also after RoA he typically sells the Chalice.

Yea I know not much different from yours
But as far as runes, he recommends hybrid pen. And masteries he rolls more down the Defense tree and 0 in Support

BTW, great guide. GJ on getting to Plat
Idk, I would never do that but I guess do what works for you.