How to improve ranked solo queue

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Purgation

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Everyone complains but what are the answers? I've put a lot of thought into this, and here are my ideas.

Sorry in advance for the text wall.

1. Each major Tier (e.g. Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc.)

Should only have 3 levels. The majority of players should be in 2. A small-ish % of the best and worst players in that tier are in 1 and 3.

- the current tiers are unstable and people bounce through them all the time, making them frustrating and meaningless. Tiers 1 and 3 would be where a form of clamping takes place, making this more predictable

2. It should be possible (but somewhat more difficult) to fall out of a tier

- First, there should be an effect like clamping, but working in both directions, reducing LP losses. If you are about to be dropped out of a tier, you should be given a series (call it a relegation series). You either win 3/5 in your relegation series within 3 weeks, or demotion occurs.

3. Significant fixes to duo queue issues and abuse. At a minimum;

- Duo queue banned for promos and placement matches
- Minimum number of games played solo to obtain a rating
- If there is a stark disconnect between solo and duo performance, the duo performance should be heavily discounted.
- Mismatched duos (say Silver V with a Gold I) most of the MMR gain or loss should be calculated against the senior member. That means, the Silver V doesn't move much, the Gold I gets a little MMR for a win and loses a lot for a loss)... the reasoning is simple, it's assumed that it is the Gold I who is having the major impact on the game. If they succeed, no big deal, they are expected to be better. If they fail, they are showing they can't carry and should lose a lot. This one change would make boosting much more difficult.

4. Matchmaking and the pre-game lobby needs to better account for role preferences

One idea I had about this is role matching - unlike a role queue (where you select what role you want to play) the matchmaking system should try to predict if it is placing you in a compatible team based on most played champions. To be clear, this would be purely statistical - - matchmaking knows that Caitlin and Ashe are on teams together infrequently, therefore two players who play lots of Cait and Ashe should not be placed on the same team.

So long as the data used to build the model is kept refreshed, this shouldn't freeze the meta while still giving everyone a better chance of being put on a team with compatible role preferences.

5. Placement needs... changes

- 10 games is not enough to distinguish luck from skill for the MAJORITY of the player base; Yes, if you are Plat/Diamond you can win 9/10 or 10/10 and place well, but the difference between mid silver and mid Bronze can easily be luck. Placing so much MMR weight on initial games doesn't make sense.

- My preferences would be a) full elo reset b) w/l based "tournament" placement (1 time basis only) c) new players accounts start unranked (below Bronze 3) thereafter.

Any thoughts about these ideas GD?

TL;DR; Ranked soloqueue could be made much better, with some fairly straightforward changes outlined here.


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Purgation

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Shameless self bump, first page moving so fast...


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MrGrimm999

The Council

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
Everyone complains but what are the answers? I've put a lot of thought into this, and here are my ideas.

Sorry in advance for the text wall.

1. Each major Tier (e.g. Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc.)

Should only have 3 levels. The majority of players should be in 2. A small-ish % of the best and worst players in that tier are in 1 and 3.

- the current tiers are unstable and people bounce through them all the time, making them frustrating and meaningless. Tiers 1 and 3 would be where a form of clamping takes place, making this more predictable
This is the same thing as 5 tiers per rank, there is 'clamping' at either end, the difference is at division 5, you just can't move down.

Quote:
2. It should be possible (but somewhat more difficult) to fall out of a tier

- First, there should be an effect like clamping, but working in both directions, reducing LP losses. If you are about to be dropped out of a tier, you should be given a series (call it a relegation series). You either win 3/5 in your relegation series within 3 weeks, or demotion occurs.
The reason they made it so you can't be demoted out of a tier is so people dont get afraid to play ranked. Iv fallen to division 5? No problem, I will only play 1 ranked game per month just to be sure I don't get demoted. This happened all the time in season two and is one of the main reasons Riot changed to the LP system. There basically is a relegation series, its called 0 LP. If you can't win a couple of games at 0 LP and you keep losing, you get demoted, this is the same thing as a relegation series except it just doesn't say you are in a series.

Quote:
3. Significant fixes to duo queue issues and abuse. At a minimum;

- Duo queue banned for promos and placement matches
- Minimum number of games played solo to obtain a rating
- If there is a stark disconnect between solo and duo performance, the duo performance should be heavily discounted.
- Mismatched duos (say Silver V with a Gold I) most of the MMR gain or loss should be calculated against the senior member. That means, the Silver V doesn't move much, the Gold I gets a little MMR for a win and loses a lot for a loss)... the reasoning is simple, it's assumed that it is the Gold I who is having the major impact on the game. If they succeed, no big deal, they are expected to be better. If they fail, they are showing they can't carry and should lose a lot. This one change would make boosting much more difficult.
No duos for placement matches and promos actually sounds like a good idea. MMR is what determines your LP gains, and there is already calculation that take into account duo vs solo and large disparities between MMRs of players. This is already happening behind the scenes, it has been around since season 1 actually.

Quote:
4. Matchmaking and the pre-game lobby needs to better account for role preferences

One idea I had about this is role matching - unlike a role queue (where you select what role you want to play) the matchmaking system should try to predict if it is placing you in a compatible team based on most played champions. To be clear, this would be purely statistical - - matchmaking knows that Caitlin and Ashe are on teams together infrequently, therefore two players who play lots of Cait and Ashe should not be placed on the same team.

So long as the data used to build the model is kept refreshed, this shouldn't freeze the meta while still giving everyone a better chance of being put on a team with compatible role preferences.
Way too much data and not enough evidence that it would actually help the system at all, you are purely guessing at this point. Can't possible account for all situations which is why general systems are better than more particular ones when there is a large amount of data. Take a statistics class on this one, you will see that these algorithms wouldn't really help much, and they might even make it worse.

Quote:
5. Placement needs... changes

- 10 games is not enough to distinguish luck from skill for the MAJORITY of the player base; Yes, if you are Plat/Diamond you can win 9/10 or 10/10 and place well, but the difference between mid silver and mid Bronze can easily be luck. Placing so much MMR weight on initial games doesn't make sense.
There actually are more than 10 placements and you just dont know it. It actually extends to about 40ish games. The way it works is the first 10 games are your placements and have the greatest impact on your MMR and rank, then the next 10 games still actually have a huge impact, just not as many as your placement matches, and finally the next 10 or 20 games have a smaller impact until they finally level off and are the normal amount of MMR per game. This also have been around since early season 2 behind the scenes and you just didn't know.

Quote:
- My preferences would be a) full elo reset b) w/l based "tournament" placement (1 time basis only) c) new players accounts start unranked (below Bronze 3) thereafter.
Full elo reset is vastly inferior to a soft elo reset based on previous seasons performance. There already is data there, its better to take advantage of it. "tournament" placement is basically what the placement matches are for solo queue. I don't know what you mean by c.


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MastrLuigi

Member

08-25-2013

^Too lazy to quote that smart aleck

Clamping does not exist at the lower end. If it does, it's failing miserably. You will always lose much more than you will gain per match whilst clamped. Especially in the first division of any tier where you will gain 1-7 LP per match and have 4-5 wins negated by one loss.

The willingness to play ranked via not being able to get demoted is sorely negated by the level of toxicity players feel they are allowed to exhibit because they cannot get demoted. This makes promotion matches for tiers much more stressful on those trying to climb and gives them much more to prove with the toxic players from division 5 of the next tier in their game and on their teams. IMO, there is no good reason at all to not being able to get demoted out of a tier. It's backwards and causes more trouble then it prevents.

Even if the game treats 40-ish matches like placements, it should appear so in game. Far too much weigh is given to placement matches and it is exponentially more difficult to climb into a division than it is to place into it.

I think both full and soft resets have proven to be ineffective in solving all the problems they are/were implemented to solve. I think it would be much more effective to do a full reset with all players starting at the bottom of the ladder (i.e. Bronze 5). I honestly dont know why it isn't this way already. It makes so much more sense to have everyone start at the bottom and work their way up and it is healthy play than it is for people to feel like they're garbage at league because they're wood, tin, plastic tier because they're so deep into bronze.