So you're planning to "Scaridize" talon?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

bahamutkaiser

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-20-2013

I like how a summoner spell which every player has access to is not counter play because it isn't commonly appreciated... JS


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Somnicidal

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingSalvo View Post
ONE SECOND SILENCE. The shortest silence in the game. The weakest CC in the game other than it can stop channels compared to roots.
Given you have 100 ping, and that W has a .2s cast animation, and Hydra has a .1s or so cast animation, you have literally 600 milliseconds to properly combo your auto, Q reset, and both halves of R, and they can Flash the R collapse and Zhonya's the DOT.
Then you die because your cooldowns are 6+ seconds with 40 cdr and level 18.

"No counterplay." Ha.
Remind me how what you just said is any different from Scarizards statement?:

Quote:
The reality of the situation is you fight a talon in 3 steps - 1. You're Silenced. 2. He's invisible. 3. You or He is dead. There are counters to Talon, but his skill execution on a champion has no real counterplay.
The point he is saying, is that when it is powerful enough to be effective, it is stiffling and frustrating. When it isnt powerful enough to be effective, he dies. That is a badly designed champion with no counterplay. Zed on the otherhand, has more counterplay for both the user and the enemy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamutkaiser View Post
I like how a summoner spell which every player has access to is not counter play because it isn't commonly appreciated... JS
Why should an AP be forced to take cleanse when they should be allowed to run TP or Ignite without punishment? /sarcasm

Although I could see the argument where Zed and Kha can just have exhaust run against them, while Talon can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnicidal View Post
Remind me how what you just said is any different from Scarizards statement?:



The point he is saying, is that when it is powerful enough to be effective, it is stiffling and frustrating. When it isnt powerful enough to be effective, he dies. That is a badly designed champion with no counterplay. Zed on the otherhand, has more counterplay for both the user and the enemy.
?
Talon has no disengage, I agree either his silence should be buffed, his damage should be buffed, or he should get an escape. That way 1. the enemy is always dead or 2. Talon is never dead (i.e. Zed/Fizz).

Grievous wounds from Fizz which can't be cleansed and destroys carries' dueling power via lifesteal has arguably less counterplay than silence.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Imwithimpaired V

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
Counter =/= Counterplay

"Counterplay" refers to the decisions an enemy can take during a fight that can minimize or neutralize an enemy. Ahri has counterplay because you can dodge her Q/E (and dodging her E makes it much harder for her to combo you). Zed has counterplay because it takes a couple seconds for his full combo to take effect, as well as his Q being dodgeable. Clearly, these champions are still effective despite posessing counterplay.

Talon does not have good counterplay. He jumps at you instantly from a distance with his E, silences you, QWR with a few autos mixed in (and possible ignite), and you're either dead or you're not. Nowhere in there can you make any meaningful decisions to lessen his impact outside of "run away".
By that logic pantheon has no counterplay. He just jumps on you and kills you while you're stunned. Hell alot of champions can cc you and instantly kill you before you can do anything. All uncounterable apparently.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Imwithimpaired V

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingSalvo View Post
Why should an AP be forced to take cleanse when they should be allowed to run TP or Ignite without punishment? /sarcasm

Although I could see the argument where Zed and Kha can just have exhaust run against them, while Talon can't.
CLEANSE? WTF. Take barrier. Jesus.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ChaosBloodterfly

Senior Member

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imwithimpaired V View Post
By that logic pantheon has no counterplay. He just jumps on you and kills you while you're stunned. Hell alot of champions can cc you and instantly kill you before you can do anything. All uncounterable apparently.
"By that logic, pantheon does have no counterplay."

Well.... he doesn't. He either does his thing (kill people with QWE faceroll), or he doesn't and dies. The only thing is where they've added counterplay is his ult, which is because they nerfed the range, and created it with a looooooonnnngggg ass drop time.

"Hell alot of champions can cc you and instantly kill you before you can do anything. All uncounterable apparently."
Counterplay=/= uncounterable. Just uncounterable if you don't have a given kit.
And a lot of bruisers do have this problem. Like Xin. You faceroll QWER. There's no real place to do anything. Either your champ out duels him, or you have to have an escape ready to blow, or you die. Say you're top Udyr and you lost first blood to a gank or whatever. You just die any time you come into 600 range of Xin. Compared to Lee Sin. You can juke his Q, take cover behind minions, etc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mingxie

Junior Member

08-21-2013

Wow, this thread makes me sad. I really hoped for a (minor) buff, but it seems like this won't happen.

And for gods sake, stop valuing Talon's silence so much. It's an 1 second silence, that's nothing. Maybe neat, if you want to prevent that Lissandra escapes with her E, but in the most situations literally garbage. Also his earl game is pathetically weak, a decent Fizz or Syndra is going to stomp your face and snowball the game into their favor.

At least think about one of these points, if a rioter is ever going to read this.

  • rework his passive (it's useless, why do I want to deal more dmg with AAs, if I'm an AD caster!?)
  • buff his W at early stage (Talon CAN'T clear a wave without major items like BT or Hydra)
  • revert his ultimate nerf (which was too much imo.)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SouL1ess

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingxie View Post
Wow, this thread makes me sad. I really hoped for a (minor) buff, but it seems like this won't happen.

And for gods sake, stop valuing Talon's silence so much. It's an 1 second silence, that's nothing. Maybe neat, if you want to prevent that Lissandra escapes with her E, but in the most situations literally garbage. Also his earl game is pathetically weak, a decent Fizz or Syndra is going to stomp your face and snowball the game into their favor.

At least think about one of these points, if a rioter is ever going to read this.
  • rework his passive (it's useless, why do I want to deal more dmg with AAs, if I'm an AD caster!?)
  • buff his W at early stage (Talon CAN'T clear a wave without major items like BT or Hydra)
  • revert his ultimate nerf (which was too much imo.)
No, Talon's silence is what makes him comparable to kha Zed Rengar. Without silence he is easily outclassed.

Of course, if his silence is removed then he will have to get major damage buffs


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Krivinn

Senior Member

09-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Volty actually tracked down this bug last week, and a fix is in. Don't know which patch it'll be included with, but our QA says it checks out. Likely to be 3.11.
Hopefully we get it in 3.12 I guess......