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So you're planning to "Scaridize" talon?

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iThong

Junior Member

08-20-2013

If anything maybe a very minor buff, but if they're going to nerf him...that's silly.


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Ferr3t

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Raincall:
Yet he is never picked at pro level. Seriously, most of the coutnerplay bull**** is based on theoretical approaches to the problem. Why don't you show me a collection of videos where Talon systematically destroys enemies without allowing counterplay?


He's never picked at the pro level because his early game is **** and his damage overall is negligible unless he gets fed, and the reason his early game is **** and his damage overall is negligible unless he gets fed is because he has incredibly low counterplay.


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Chupathingy

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Khristophoros:
Kass Q is less range than Talon E and is not instant. It actually has a casting time and flight time. It takes about 3/4 of a second to reach a target at max range. Talon's is literally instant and longer range.


Kassadin can still get his q off before the silence goes, talon still teleports but then they just sit there and are both silenced. But since Kass's silence is longer he just ports away before talon can do much.


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blujadajhdja

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
The Toad:
Counter =/= Counterplay

"Counterplay" refers to the decisions an enemy can take during a fight that can minimize or neutralize an enemy. Ahri has counterplay because you can dodge her Q/E (and dodging her E makes it much harder for her to combo you). Zed has counterplay because it takes a couple seconds for his full combo to take effect, as well as his Q being dodgeable. Clearly, these champions are still effective despite posessing counterplay.

Talon does not have good counterplay. He jumps at you instantly from a distance with his E, silences you, QWR with a few autos mixed in (and possible ignite), and you're either dead or you're not. Nowhere in there can you make any meaningful decisions to lessen his impact outside of "run away".


Have you ever used Talon in laning phase? He has serious mana problems, he can't just keep hopping onto you over and over. Not to mention, if you poke him down and zone him, he can't do ANYTHING. All he has is a burst combo to all-in you, he doesn't have poke like Zed or Ahri. All he has for ranged harass is his small cone.


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Insoy

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Chupathingy:
Kassadin can still get his q off before the silence goes, talon still teleports but then they just sit there and are both silenced. But since Kass's silence is longer he just ports away before talon can do much.

Eyyy looks like someone has done the matchup and understands


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Raincall

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Assassins are destined to die in this game where disgusting crit AA aren't seen as toxic for some reason.


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Zoltux

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Nerfing him AGAIN is just stupid..


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Aolong Hong

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Insoy:
Do you remember the rework for Kayle when shurelia did it? Well this is almost probably worse


Damn. Where did you find this, and if you have it, could you link please?
Reworks so far have been total bull****...


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OGZ Bob Gnarly

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Raincall:
Yet he is never picked at pro level. Seriously, most of the coutnerplay bull**** is based on theoretical approaches to the problem. Why don't you show me a collection of videos where Talon systematically destroys enemies without allowing counterplay?

Something not having counterplay doesn't make it super extremely powerful and mega freelo. It's anti-fun because you can't meaningfully interact with something that has no counterplay. The less counterplay an ability has, the weaker it is. That's why they won't reduce the mana cost on Phosphorous Bomb despite it being subpar, and why Talon will probably never see any buffs in his current state.


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MegaBlaziken

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Raincall:
Yet he is never picked at pro level. Seriously, most of the coutnerplay bull**** is based on theoretical approaches to the problem. Why don't you show me a collection of videos where Talon systematically destroys enemies without allowing counterplay?


The reason that Talon isn't picked at the pro level is because he is weak. Champions who have low counterplay can't be allowed to be obscenely strong because then they end up being frustratingly one-sided.

Let's take AP Sion for example. He presses Q, then W. That's it. There's no dodging, no options besides "Stay out of his Q range." He presses all of his buttons, and either it mathematically adds up to you living or you dying. That's the definition of "low counterplay." Does this mean Sion is strong? No, because if he was strong, then he would end up being one of the worst thing to play against. There is no room to outplay him. It's just a battle of math (does his Q+W add up to kill you? If so, he wins. If not, he loses.), and that is boring as ****.