So you're planning to "Scaridize" talon?

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Insoy

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railage View Post
Insoy, I'm sorry your favorite champion is going to get bent over and pounded...

I always liked Talon.
You act like I'm surprised, He's got nothing but nerfs and all I do is play and work with what I have. I'm the kind of person who makes things work regardless of how many things are said and QQ on forums about. Sure it's just talon for now but just have the attitude to keep at it unless it gets "OLAFED". Then ok, I"ll back off.


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Just Hano

Senior Member

08-20-2013

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Originally Posted by Khristophoros View Post
Instant silence that outranges most abilities which forces Talon's target to receive his full burst before they can do anything. That is the definition of no counterplay.
Like kassiwin?


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Gespens

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

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Originally Posted by Oderlin View Post
First, I know the difference between reworking a champions and changing his number. The point I wanted to make is you're all crying over the lack of counterplay Talon have, when he do have counterplay.
Let compare him with other champions :
Zed : Burst, escape ability, Range, no mana, untargettable when casting his ult.
Kha : Less mana problem, reset, escape ability, Burst, stealth.
Talon : Burst, escape ability (his ult is his escape ability), silence 1 sec, mana problem early game.


So, what should I do to stop Kha from getting his reset ? From going Stealth-mode ? Counter play to this ? I guess I shouldn't die, if I do, he get his reset and can burst my team even harder.

What about Zed ? An assassin with escape ability, gap closing ult + untargetable. He also have an easy laning phase (no mana, he can go all sustain and poke all day).

Talon, hard laning phase (if i remember correctly, 3-4 Rake early and you're OOM, you can do 1-2 combo (EQW) and be OOM. His regen is nothing to be proud off. He can burst any target who didn't build armor or HP. Just like Kha and Zed. All his combo doesn't end in 1 sec. You can still survive his combo after the silence is gone.

Save for Talon, none of those have an nigh-instant burst. For a majority Kha'zix's burst to come out, you need to be isolated. Zed has to time his rotation properly to maximize Death Mark's damage-- during which time you can deal actually kill Zed.

I'm not denying Talon has a hard laning phase. But having a hard laning phase =/= having counterplay. Take Galio for example. Aside from Ccing him when he ults, what counterplay does he have when he finishes Chalice? He has resistance stats from Bulwark, short CD poke on Q, and a pseudo escape on E.


For Kassadin, you can't say that AA is counter play against Kassadin's damage combo. If I am AP and can't cast ability, my AA won't do anything against Kassadin, and he can just riftwalk away after that. He can also go all in, do his combo, use zhonya, wait for his CD and ult to safety.

I've never had any problem against Kassadin, Zed, Kha or even Talon. I just can't understand why you guys are asking the nerf bat for Talon (or even asking a rework on his kits) when you can build armor, buy an oracle or some pink ward, if he try to escape, you can just follow his ult.

I am not asking for a nerf on Talon. Or even a rework. While I wouldn't mind seeing a power shift on his skills, I don't care. The fact of the matter is, if building certain items that compromise your build (ie. buying an Abyssal Scepter as a long range mage against Veigar-- not out of the question, but my point stands), that is not laning counterplay. Right now, if you are not a tanky mid like Ryze, or in my case, Cho, the counterplay is 'do not try to farm without skills, or he will burst you.' Compared with Zed, who you can 'evade skill shots and get aggressive on him, or try to take him down with you when he ult.'

Yes, I understand that Zhonya's is core on most AP Mids now, so starting cloth/5 is normal against him. That there is counterplay, but is it satisfying to both me the player, as well as the opponent (does he feel like his damage is completely worthless from out of the gate? If yes, there is some inherent design flaws).


It like asking Riot to rework or nerf to the ground Tryndamere because you don't want to buy some armor to counter his damage output. Or crying over Malz's ult because you can't time your abilities against his.

The issue with Tryn is that late game he will destroy everyone in a 1v1-- as he should, being a melee ADC. and malz ult is already super buggy and easily countered by high priority targets who build zhonya's and QSS, or are tanks and he should have no business ulting.

TL;DR : Stop asking for nerf and rework, learn to counter. I understand some champions have some low counterplay kits, but they have other problem like the bad early game, bad manapool, items dependant, etc. Some champions will counter some kits, while other won't.
But I'm not. I'm fine with where Talon is because of PTSD from when Cleavers were OP.


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vieTz

Senior Member

08-20-2013

hi
i like to talon in soloque



edit: hi insoy


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Furi Kuri

Member

08-20-2013

Another thing that Scarizard does in the Rengar thread is he replies to people who agree with his changes, and disagree, but he never replies the constant posts of "dont change Rengar" and "We never asked for this"


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Swin

Senior Member

08-20-2013

I don't get this at all... Sounds like Talon should just shred people left and right with no problems because they are ONLY looking at the kit he has. Not his GAMEPLAY. When Talon is in a game most of the time he will get wrecked. There are a lot more factors in a league game and match up then simply a skill kit and RIOT should know that ffs. Talon might need changing if league were a game where he had infinite mana, it was only 1v1, and the person talon plays against is a complete idiot and lets talon just trade without poking him at all. There are so many factors that go in to whether a champ will win or lose in this game, and although his KIT alone seems OP, when you actually put it into real gameplay it is underpowered, and talon is underpowered, and to nerf him only because of his "no counterplay kit" would only confirm extreme stupidity. They might as well just make him the league mascot or delete him if they plan on nerfing him...


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Cuz1972

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Sanguinem View Post
Theres nothing wrong with that though. Thats what he does, its what hes always done since he came out. No one has the right to remove somehting like that this late into Leagues development for no other reason then some ****ty Rioter (Scariz) wanting to make all champions binary and the same because he himself is probably piss poor at the game or something. And besides, if talon jumps in on someone like that, that person deserves death from an assassin. Also, if he does it into a team, hell most likely die because he has no real escape outside that and his ult which can be stopped through oracles and just bursting him
Talon isn't viable right now because he has no counter play. Can you imagine what he would look like with good scaling / numbers?


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Gespens

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi Kuri View Post
Another thing that Scarizard does in the Rengar thread is he replies to people who agree with his changes, and disagree, but he never replies the constant posts of "dont change Rengar" and "We never asked for this"
He's addressed them, but is there a point to responding to the exact same question of 'do not change rengar' and 'we never asked for this' and the various death threats/'you should be fired'/etc. comments?


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Netteh

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Scarizard: "It's rework time"

Talon/Karma/Renger: "Please! anything but that!"

I wish I still had photoshop..


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Cuz1972

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi Kuri View Post
Another thing that Scarizard does in the Rengar thread is he replies to people who agree with his changes, and disagree, but he never replies the constant posts of "dont change Rengar" and "We never asked for this"
His last posts have been nothing but.