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[Proposition] Shyvana Kit Rework.

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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

09-12-2013

Thinking this over, what would the potential of instead of BoRK one took Gunblade? Shyvana deal about 60% Physical and 40% Magic, the ranged slow siphons HP via the Spellvamp (23% with mastery) and has a long range. This would make Shyvana's 2% Max HP on Flamebreah heal her via Spellvamp.

Also Phantom+Trinity then take the Lethality Mastery for 10% Critical Damage really makes Twin Bite hit like a goddman truck.

I have found 2 build paths work well for a Damage-Oriented Shyvana.

14/4/12 if you are Jungling
- The Dual Penetration works very well on Shyvana
- The extra 108 HP at 18 is about the best part of the starter-Tank Lines
- You get Vampirism from Support, the only other part you could take is 5% XP gain so instead I took the HP.

If you are in Top Lane I would advise 17/13
- Taking Dual Penetration and Bonus AD in offense
* Only 3 points in Sorcery for the CDR the 4th goes to Summoners Wrath for Ghost/Exhaust which work well on Shyvana preferable Exhaust.
- Take the HP/Level, Flat Armor and 2 ranks of Tough Skin along with Veteran Scars.
- Take safeguard, you will be surprised just how much Tower Damage that blocks when you want to dive a kill.
- Then take unyielding and block which will help you through a fight.
- Put your final rank into Lethality since you will have 40% Critical Chance that 5% may hurt more.

So now you have a 1% chance to inflict 10% more critical damage on an AD champ (which really hurts if it is a Twin Bite) You have an HP buffer and take less damage from Champions and Minions allowing you to trade better.

Also put 1 Critical Chance rune on your Page. Losing 1 AD for that small chance to deal high-damage can really turn the lane phase. With Lethality that hurts all the more as it's 5% for Melee champions if you can pull a point from Defense to get 10% that may be better. I am still testing that build.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

09-12-2013

Interesting as well, especially the Crit part. I will add it to my build and the rune for laning.

the 21 supp build is worth it because you get the CDR and Ms at the end, if you dont get those 2 it doesnt really work for me. If we go for Trinity/ PD we dont really need the supp tree anyway.

Right now I want to try her more oriented to the other 2 trees for more pressure on the enemy junler and more "hurt".

Trinity/ Botrk are usually my core items.
PD is nice, Sunfire or Omen, Visage... 1 or 2 Tank items should be enough.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

09-12-2013

Copper by building Trinity, Black Cleaver, Spirit, Sunfire you end up with like 3.5K HP and 120-150 ranges of Armor/MR it's pretty good actually. The trick will be spacing out purchases for Shyv it seems she needs to build part-items because she falls out so fast.

As Ion pointed out she actually can do without Boots because she moves into the Softcap of Movement Speed. It's quite interesting I have found myself taking Boots 1 and just sitting on them because of how much movement you get elsewhere. Furor boots can work but with Trinity the extra-chase speed seems almost wasted because any CC that will allow an enemy to escape will still do that.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

09-12-2013

Didnt get all of the Soft cap MS part.
Trinity gives MS all right, but do you need MS runes or the supp tree to reach the cap ?

Phantom dancer is a nice item too, but if forced into one I might prefer a Guardian angel as last item instead of boots.

Tenacity is still a big point on her, and besides the rather cheap boots there arent many items for that.
Zephyr and Spirit golem comes to mind. I dont really want to buy the stone though.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

09-12-2013

The MS soft-cap is 415 beyond that between 415-490 any movement bonus past that is only 80% effective and past 490 it's only 50% effective. So if you have 557 Movement Speed while Burnout is active you are getting:
415 Full Movement
60 Movement between 415 and 490
33.5 Movement past 490

So your total movement per unit would be 506 units instead of 557, see how you start slowing down? You still are faster but the difference is less. Shyvana has a base movement (Counting 4% Quints only) of 364, when you add Trinity Force you are at 393 movement. When you get your Phantom Dancer you are at 412 movement base which puts you 3 Away from the Soft-Cap without Burnout.

Burnout rank 5 adds 50% Movement and decays at 15% of the base value a second back to the base.

So at 412 base that decay rate is 61 units slowdown per second. The intervals are as follows:
1st Second Active: 618 Movement (which is actually 529)
2nd Second Active: 557 Movement (which is actually 506)
3rd Second Active: 496 Movement (which is actually 468)
4th Second Active: 435 Movement (Which is actually 431)
5th Second Active: 412 Movement (Your back at your Base)

That is my problem with Burnout it decay's too fast and you get nothing movement wise for extending the duration. If Shyvana is meant to be a mobile-bruiser she needs to not decay lower than 75% of the bonus value (meaning that in this case of 412 base you would have 618 which would not decay lower than 463 through the extension which is 453 Movement)

that or just don't decay if she is supposed to be highly mobile for a bruiser

So you see with CDR keeping Burnout up almost all the time you actually are over the Movement Cap or at the movement cap. Then add Trinity's 20 movement passive and your base while attacking someone is 432 which is over the soft-cap. Basically you are seeing very diminished returns from movement and probably could do better with Phantom Dancer instead of Boots because even at a slightly slower speed you ignoring units makes you much more mobile.

As for Tenacity, yes Merc Treads are the easiest source, Zephyr being the 2nd most attractive to an offensive build. You can lose Safeguard and Lethality to pick up the 15% Tenacity if you run the Offense/Defense Tree's. Then if you really want boots you have Stacked Tenacity so it's another option available to you. I have to mess around with "no-boots" to really get a feel for it. I hope that helps I plan to test these builds more on PBE where I can track her as well as the items.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

09-12-2013

I will test around with that as well. Currently without the MS quints in exchange for the extra Power early to pressure almost all junglers.

Hope to see new Shyvana notes pop up soon. ^^

Just had what might have been my worst Shy match ever.
Wanted to counter a rammus... didnt work. AT ALL!.
He totally destroyed me while taking no damage himself.
At least thats what it felt like ^^


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Katrisa

Senior Member

09-12-2013

So I've been running Shy today toplane and tried something a little different which hadn't occurred to me till today. Specifically I ran with Exhaust and Ignite.

With Summoner's wrath and both skills you will have a much better chance of winning your lane. I tried this with my standard jungle runes (utility runes, offensive/def mastery) and this allowed me to snowball toplane against Lee.

Essentially harass some and then go all in at level 2 or 3 and go for the kill.

With Shyvana's burnout I'm not sure she needs a flash or ghost to avoid ganks (especially if you're winning your lane). And having the tools to secure early kills seems to outweigh avoiding a gank if you can snowball hard and early.

All of my toplane games like this so far have gone rather well. I even faced off against a Kayle toplane and won. I kind of figured I was mad to try it in the first place but it worked out well. It pairs well with how she should ultimately function which is do or die. You either kill them, die, or someone is forced out of the lane. And preferably its them.

Also another thing you can do which I have observed other top laners do. Tiamat on its own is kind of crummy. On the other hand upgrading it to Ravenous Hydra and then following with a brualizer makes you really nasty to fight. It also has the benefit of allowing you to farm forever. This works better than I thought it would. In the past I have built Tiamat and then started on a second item and found my power drop in-between unacceptable.

If you build Hydra I would probably follow with mallet/black cleaver and continue to tank up, skipping Trinity or any other attack speed items. Its not necessarily something I would want to go against a Jax, Nassus, or some other pure AA champion. But against most others it works rather well since you end up AD heavy with penetration, and you will almost certainly be more farmed than anyone else (and knocking towers down with minion waves). Honestly I would love after her season 4 fixes, for this kind of build to be what Shyvana wants. Stacking AD, HP, a Hydra and going to town on everyone at the same time. The only issue I saw is that without the mallet or trinity you won't be able to close many of the kills. So you are like a big spiny rock that no one wants to screw with, but you keep tromping toward their towers so they have to. Its different.

With this said she is still so lack luster late game due her ultimate dysfunctions it's just not funny.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Something in between.
I want a new shyvana splash art, so I made one myself. ^^

779295

Shyvana-step-5.jpg

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IonDragonX

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
Didnt get all of the Soft cap MS part.
Trinity gives MS all right, but do you need MS runes or the supp tree to reach the cap ?


My style is to use the 3%(+2% out of combat) from utility tree, 4.5% from quints and two Zeal items. That's +17.5%(19.5%), turning her 350 into 411(418). Recall that tier 2 Swiftness boots or any other boots with Alacrity give 60 ms, so you are at least 1 point over that. Since the soft cap starts at 415, you're into it pretty far whenever you use Burnout. The ms boost on-hit from Phage is just gravy.

If 60 MS is worth about 800 gold then you can figure that you are only getting 600 - 900 gold worth of other stats in your 'boot slot'. Now, 20% crit and 36% attack speed (upgradable, too) are valued at 2200 but it only cost you 1600 over the value of the MS (800).

Is this worth it on Shyvana? ... Eff the boots, man.

Quote:
copperpoint:
Something in between.
I want a new shyvana splash art, so I made one myself. ^^
779295

Very nice. Her splash art originally had her standing still in a pose. It should have her portrayed as always in motion, just like you have it.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

09-13-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
Something in between.
I want a new shyvana splash art, so I made one myself. ^^

779295

My only point here is that by default Shyvana's skin is blue tinted. Wasn't sure if you were keeping track of that. Other than that tiny point it looks great, I will be saving that image.