3.11 Stuff

First Riot Post
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Weeks1

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancy Wolf View Post
No its a convoluted and watered down statistic that people try to use for an argument.
Pretty much. Keep in mind how games in Dominion work: it's rather difficult to carry a team with a single champion, and comeback mechanics exist. Also consider the amount of leavers/trolls in low elo. You can't guarantee that every victory a champion got was a result of that particular champion's power. The overall winrate of a champion across all games, where so many things happened that are not taken into consideration, is a pretty misleading statistic.


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kirillian

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancy Wolf View Post
No its a convoluted and watered down statistic that people try to use for an argument. If i can walk into SR with morgana jungle in bronze 5 and carry myself to gold 5 with a 90% winrate, does that mean Moragana jungle is broken/strong/viable? or does it mean the enviorment Im using it in cannot adapt to the situation. Because im sure the higher you go in the ladder the less likley you are to win games with that.

Why is Shaco so strong in lower dominion elo but not in higher dominion elo? How many people in lower elo buy sweeper or lantern? You have to look at the difference in playstyle to see quite obviously why certain champs are so strong in lower elo, while disregarded in higher brackets. Its not the Champion, its the players.
Here are the statistical problems that need to be overcome:

- Champion winrate IS a fact. However, without context, a champion winrate is completely useless. A champion's winrate in high elo vs low elo is an example of that context. A champion might be a great pubstomper that high elo understands how to deal with or maybe a champion has a terrible low elo winrate because his power requires strong mechanics and knowledge of the game to unlock. Both are examples used many times by Morello to describe why a champion might have a specific winrate in one elo but not in another.

- We don't have a good dataset. Riot doesn't provide to use their data along with, say, MMR to dig through and analyze and there are not currently any sites that can GET that MMR and show it alongside data, so Dominion data will always be without context, smeared across a really large group of playstyles and skills. Winrate statistics for Dominion from our viewpoint are relatively worthless.

- Winrates for commonly picked champions in Dominion will ALWAYS be artificially inflated compared to low pickrate champions due to the higher chance of the champion appearing on BOTH teams.

Without addressing these things, any conclusions we make based upon statistics are subject to suspicion as the data being used to create the conclusions in the first place is suspect. The likelihood that we can make an accurate prediction of anything based off of Dominion winrates is pretty low frankly.


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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

09-04-2013

and as much as I hate to use sports references.. Imagine if the minor leagues in the MLB decided to use no bats to play baseball and instead use there hands to hit the ball. They then start to complain that its too difficult to play because the ball is too hard to hit. Do we change the rules of the ENTIRE game because the minor leagues are choosing to play the game incorrectly? Or is that the fault of the minor leagues?

MOST (< because there are a few champs who ARE incredibly strong regardless of elo) of the inflated winrate you see from champions on dominion comes from a lack of player knowledge, not the champion necessarily being strong.


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Pylair

Senior Member

09-04-2013

stop arguing with the teemo main guys, i bet he just wants riot to revert the WELL DESERVED nerfs ****rat got.


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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pylair View Post
stop arguing with the teemo main guys, i bet he just wants riot to revert the WELL DESERVED nerfs ****rat got.
But im bored at work and were talking about champ balance in dom! its interesting regardless if i have to restate the way i say it 50 times


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kirillian

Senior Member

09-04-2013

^ Ya...I'm having the same problem currently lol. I have to wait on feedback to move on a project. Bored to ****.


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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirillian View Post
^ Ya...I'm having the same problem currently lol. I have to wait on feedback to move on a project. Bored to ****.
Stuck with a computer trying to save 80+ files from a patients charts.... takes about 20-45 seconds per file depending on the computers mood... + multiple charts to finish op


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Geryth

Senior Member

09-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancy Wolf View Post
Stuck with a computer trying to save 80+ files from a patients charts.... takes about 20-45 seconds per file depending on the computers mood... + multiple charts to finish op
And here I am at work writing home health software. Small world!