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the usefulness of flash in ARAM

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Ahlen

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
Random Shards:
I have to agree with the people saying flash is mostly good for initiators. The argument that "Flash saved me from X diving melee" is pretty much negated entirely when you look at the cooldown of Flash vs the cooldown of any champion skill. Flash has a base cooldown of 5 minutes, and it only moves you, it doesn't stop the champ from eating the rest of your team, or just diving onto you again.

Heal is a massive power spike in any fight for your team, exhaust lets you just kill whoever dives on you, and thus turns the fight to your favor pretty rapidly. Flash...just buys you, and only you, a few more seconds of life at best.


Which is time for you, or teammates to CC, kill the hard-diver, turn it around and take the teamfight and a tower.


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W3rDGotMilk

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
FDru:
Players who defend flash are the same players who stand behind the turret waiting for the game to end because they refuse to be aggressive. It's SR mentality at its best.


Coming from the king of throwing games early, this made me smile!

Not every game can be won in the first 5 minutes, but every game can be lost in the first 5.


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Lammah

Recruiter

08-12-2013

I rarely use it, heal and barrier are a lot more useful


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Muzein

Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
Kholdstare13:
Flash should only be taken where it can be used to engage inward, never to dodge outward. Amumu, Galio, Janna, Thresh, even Fiddles for the double flash range into hourglass. Any champion with a strong PBAoE skill should probably take flash to improve their initiations. Anyone else should NOT take flash.


Speaking of Amumu - Lets say your teammate gets bandaged by Amumu. You now find yourself about to be Stunned. Flash can get you out of situations you didn't put yourself in (not entirely). You could argue that you shouldn't stand next to someone, but it's 1 lane and Amumu's ult takes up most of it. Plus as you said, Amumu can dive initiate rather well with a flash into Q into Ult. Same goes for getting out of a thresh ult, or a Veigar ring. There's a lot of reasons where flash could save you from a hard CC/death. I'd even say that flashing out of Amumu's bandage can not only save you, but the rest of your team from getting Ulted (this is for the point about how it's selfish and only helps you).

Quote:
Random Shards:
I have to agree with the people saying flash is mostly good for initiators. The argument that "Flash saved me from X diving melee" is pretty much negated entirely when you look at the cooldown of Flash vs the cooldown of any champion skill.


It's true that flash can't save you every time - but in reality, it's not meant to, so I wouldn't count that as an argument against it. No summoner has a CD that you can use every time it's needed. Would you also not build a zhonya's? crucible? QSS? DFG? I think when you look at everything together, flash is still an amazing pick. Its long CD is balanced around the other factors of the game; skill (positioning/awareness), items, and abilities.


None of this is to say that Flash should be taken. I completely agree that exhaust, barier, ghost, heal all have their uses as well. I find that a lot of ARAMs are won or lost quite late in the game. The summoners you want to take for ARAM need to be the ones that will secure that final team fight 20+ mins in. There are countless situations where a flash can save you from certain death or secure a kill.


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Muzein

Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
W3rDGotMilk:

Not every game can be won in the first 5 minutes, but every game can be lost in the first 5.


Contradiction aside, Could not disagree more with this statement in regards to ARAM. Builds can completely turn games around. Teams that are up the whole game can suddenly find themselves counter built and hitting for nothing. Time and again I see preemptive "GG"s from players, only to have the other team turn around and win. ARAM isn't over until it's over.


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W3rDGotMilk

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
Muzein:
Contradiction aside, Could not disagree more with this statement in regards to ARAM. Builds can completely turn games around. Teams that are up the whole game can suddenly find themselves counter built and hitting for nothing. Time and again I see preemptive "GG"s from players, only to have the other team turn around and win. ARAM isn't over until it's over.



I don't think you're on the same page as me here. Its obvious builds have a huge impact on the outcome. A team who has been "up the whole game" will never "suddenly find themselves counter built and hitting for nothing." The down team doesn't have enough money from being down early to "suddenly" do anything. I suppose it can happen if the other team doesn't know about the tab button.

In regards to your pre emptive gg statement.

Past 25 minutes either team can win and when you are that deep into the game the team who has built the more sustain, health and resist has the best chance with the current kill everything in sight meta. A squishy/easily walked over team who is SMART will push into the other base, do as much damage to the other team without killing them and die themselves in the other teams base. On the respawn they push again, kill the no-hp team and win the game.


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Muzein

Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
W3rDGotMilk:
I don't think you're on the same page as me here. Its obvious builds have a huge impact on the outcome. A team who has been "up the whole game" will never "suddenly find themselves counter built and hitting for nothing." The down team doesn't have enough money from being down early to "suddenly" do anything. I suppose it can happen if the other team doesn't know about the tab button.


It happens a lot, and isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be.

A team can lose their advantage without realizing for quite some time. Have you ever been in a game where your team has the other on their first tower in the early game? Eventually you push it down, and keep pressure until the next tower goes down, then the inhib.... But you find yourself unable to finish the game? I see this happen a lot. A 'winning' team never loses a tower, and never gets pushed back while they're up - but they can't push down for the win either. They get stalled for 5-10 mins. It's in this time they're expecting the eventual win because the match has been so 1 sided, but they lose a team fight and concede at least 2 towers and an inhib during the respawn. Now the match is even in global objectives and the team that was ahead all game is asking themselves what went wrong.

The defending team isn't just buying items to counter the team - they're identifying their biggest weaknesses. Usually that's an opponent champ who is responsible for most of the kills. Once they start killing with the correct priority, they can drastically swing a match in their favor.

You're right that it's not a flip of the switch, but the shift in control sometimes isn't apparent until it's too late.


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W3rDGotMilk

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Every game has a shift in control. One team is always going to have an early advantage over the other. Its the job of that team to win it fast or build to counter the other team late. Same thing goes for the team with the late game advantage, its their job to stall and win late which means countering early. This is why early game poke isn't as big of a deal as low mmr players make it seem. Aram is a constant tug of war over not only the map but the builds. When you can counter most things by build and even then there's a way to counter some things again the game has a lot more depth than it seems.

In higher mmr this happens plenty and is one of the things I enjoy most about it, low to mid mmr this doesn't happen at all.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

08-13-2013

Quote:
Muzein:
Speaking of Amumu - Lets say your teammate gets bandaged by Amumu. You now find yourself about to be Stunned. Flash can get you out of situations you didn't put yourself in (not entirely). You could argue that you shouldn't stand next to someone, but it's 1 lane and Amumu's ult takes up most of it. Plus as you said, Amumu can dive initiate rather well with a flash into Q into Ult. Same goes for getting out of a thresh ult, or a Veigar ring. There's a lot of reasons where flash could save you from a hard CC/death. I'd even say that flashing out of Amumu's bandage can not only save you, but the rest of your team from getting Ulted (this is for the point about how it's selfish and only helps you).

Just going to stop you on 1 big point, it's Q->flash->R, not flash->Q->R. Amumu will have the perfect position at the exact moment he ults, and your flash is not going to save you if it's you he wanted in the friendship circle.


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Bions

Senior Member

08-13-2013

Quote:
mister jesus:
http://gamerhentai.blogspot.com/

lol