How to counter Cloud 9 team comp.

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Vox Burakkuhoru

Senior Member

08-04-2013

A lot of people are starting to use this particular team comp of Ashe, Zyra, and Zac.

I'm going to focus mainly on team fights, as that team comp works best around mid game which is team fight hour near dragon.

Team Fight
Ashe and Zac are designed to engage with either Ashe arrow or Zac's knock up. Zyra is primarily used to disengage, but obviously can engage too. Oddly enough the best way to counter that engage is with a disengage team comp. Which means, Janna support, or even a zyra support if you can get it. Other supports are also good but not as great as the listed. Nami and Leona are great for disengages with their ults.

What to do

You're about to do dragon, then BOOM, Ashe arrow on your carry. What do you do next? Simply wait for zac to jump in on you and then Janna ult. This shuts down their engage hard while also healing. You can either back off from that, or, if you're healthy enough, go in on them.

Some problem. You get ashed arrow or zac jumps on you. Nami ult and disengage. Kill them if you can, but it's more important to wait. What you want is to engage on them, if you keep fighting after their engage they have the advantage even if you did disengage on them.


Hard counter Items:

Anti Ashe arrow

Mikael's CrucibleCost: 2500 (920)
+40 Magic Resist
+7 Health Regen per 5 seconds
+18 Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE Passive - Mana Font: Increases Mana Regen by 1% for every 1% of missing Mana.
UNIQUE Active: Removes all stuns, roots, taunts, fears,
(This item will save anyone hit with an ashe arrow. Added with Janna's ult equals perfect disengage and counter engage. If you have sonna, it also has a perfect disengage engage.)


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Scorpionex

Member

08-04-2013

its not just those three its the damage behind it too a good way to counter ashe arrow is by piling past the guy who got the arrow to the face plus have a sona or someone who can stun ready for a counter engage because zac can still be targeted in his ult which effectively destroys the engage as for the zyra ult not sure how to counter that which is the last piece of the puzzle


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

08-04-2013

Zac, Ashe, Zyra. Hrm.

Wukong, Ori, Ezreal?


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stoutcarrot

Senior Member

08-04-2013

Don't hate me for this but Zyra and Zac are on the OP side imo, which is part of why the comp is hard to counter.

Janna and Nami are you're best bet like you said (for disengaging their ults). Or split push them if you can. Zac, Zyra and Ashe are poor duelists compared to other champions in their respective classes, although Zyra pushes extremely hard.

Also, gap closers are strong against Zyra and Ashe. Both rely on skill shots and lack mobility.


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Eninya

Senior Member

08-04-2013

...Mikael's Crucible.


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DiminishedAC

Senior Member

08-04-2013

The main reason Cloud 9 uses this team comp is because of how much control they get in a teamfight. They have MULTIPLE engages as well as disengages. There really isn't much you can do aside from disengaging and being spread out (since their damage/CC is highly dependent on your team to be close by, coming in from all sides or flanking SEVERELY handicaps their output. Zac will either not use his ult or waste it on one person, Zyra will more than likely not use her ult at all, and Ashe will probably wait to catch someone important, which might not even happen. Having a Malphite/Nautilus with Janna support is perfect to help stop those engages under turret they will more than likely use.

Honestly, that comp is just fantastic overall and thrives on teamfighting. The number one way to keep ahead is to constantly hinder Zac's laning so he won't survive very long during his engages, and force Zyra/Ashe out of lane as much as possible. I recommend having mid lane constantly shoved under turret (with a cannon minion) so he/she can come top, allowing the jungler to focus pushing Ashe/Zyra out of lane.

My Ranked 5's team loves the AoE + CC team comps (favoring me as Zyra/Leona support) because of how great our synergy is in teamfights, and how well we communicate overall.

Since this comps strength is all together, force them apart or break them from the start.


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Vox Burakkuhoru

Senior Member

08-06-2013

added hard counter items


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Pfft

Senior Member

08-08-2013

Just ban Zyra or Ashe...


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Mace Tryndu

Senior Member

08-08-2013

I feel that one of C9's biggest strengths is their champion pool. We've seen 3 bans and a first pick all aimed at Meteos only to have to grab Lee Sin and go on a rampage with him too. You can ban ashe/zyra sure but then are you giving them Zac, Rumble, and Kennen? Or Nasus, Shen, and Zed? What about sneaky and lemon's Draven/Thresh lane that they used to play.

Champion select is also hardly the issue. They are simply outplaying NA teams. What happened last week when Velocity had a 2k gold lead at 13 minutes? It was an 8k gold deficit 15 minutes later. Didn't Lemon get caught 1v4 last week only to have the team show and turn it into a 4 for 0 team fight? Champion select is part of it yes, but they are so on point with everything right now its not as easy as banning/picking their "OP" comp away.


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Onegarion

Senior Member

08-08-2013

In some of their interviews they tell exactly what I believe is the true thing that keeps them on top. This is going to be paraphrased, but Meteos said that they are all friends outside of playing. Not so much that other teams aren't, but C9 isn't just a Pro team. They don't ream each other for messing up and they trust each other to the T. If 1 of them says jump the others say how high. There is no "leader" on the team. While they have Lemonnation as the most outspoken or primary shot caller, they all call shots. They meld really well together which is how they perform so well in the Rift. Then add on their skills and champ pools and it makes for a very formidable adversary.


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