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nidalee talks

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WolchBot

Junior Member

12-18-2009

First I have a question, does anyone know if her cougar form W and E attacks auto proc sheen? I know the buff did not come up and I did not take the time to test the damage of the attacks with or without Sheen but is seems that those attacks get the damage benefit of sheen.

As far as matching up against other Carrys well you need to realize that she is a hybrid character, you need to make them fight you on your own terms, taking advantage of the free ranged hits, traps, and heal/ias then switch to cougar form.

All in all I think she does work best as a hybrid, I think I favor DPS but I wouldn't think of playing her without a Sheen. Maybe her skills don't directly use Damage but with the attack speed increase as well as the Q move in cougar form I think you get more than enough of a benefit from the Damage.


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Lumifly

Junior Member

12-18-2009

Quote:
Sanji Watsuki:
Personally, I don't see the appeal of DPS Nidalee, although I'm sure it will come off as useful.

1. Yes, her heal will buff her attack speed, meaning her DPS goes up. Do you know who else can really use that attack speed? The other carry on the team. You do not need to go DPS to maximize its effectiveness.

2. AP/CD scaling improves your heal greatly.

3. Both human and cougar form really has nothing which synergizes with DPS, if we assume you're going to keep your buff on the team's DPS.

What exactly does DPS have going for it?


Highly spammable abilities goes perfectly in hand with DPS. How many times have you played, say, Yi and just wished you had some actual attack spells to really trumpet out the damage? And because of Nidalee's spell, it takes a very small investment to cap attack speed, leaving you with 2 or 3 slots to do whatever you want with (depends on masteries and runes).

That said, AP is a lot of fun, since she scales well (at least currently . . . we'll see what happens with the nerf bat next patch cycle).


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Twizzle

Junior Member

12-18-2009

Quote:
Sorano:


Simple question: Do her traps trigger Rylai's Scepter/Frozen Mallet/Trinity Force slow component?



Rylai's, yes. Frozen and Trinity, no.


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Sorano

Recruiter

12-18-2009

Quote:
WolchBot:
First I have a question, does anyone know if her cougar form W and E attacks auto proc sheen?


It does. I've seen Sheen procs. Early on it gives her good burst. Late game with some AP stacking there's potential for a ferocious Cougar Lich Bane Combo, since her Q Spell in Cougar Form is an improved auto-attack.

Maybe I'm wrong. Haven't been playing that long.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

12-18-2009

Yes, they do. It's most noticeable for taking down towers and inhibitors - the abilities don't do anything, but you can see the damage spike.


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12-18-2009

I tried both specs on the test realm, and I played 9 games with her last night (trying different specs). Here are my findings so far:

AP Spec

Build: Sheen -> Boots -> Rod of Ages -> Lich Bane
Summoner Spells: Clairvoyance, Teleport
Mastery Spec: 9/0/21

  • Very viable support spec. Her heals are extremely powerful (I saved teammate's lives on several occasions). She makes a really good carry babysitter.
  • Kitty form DPS is great. Even without Rylai's, I was able to keep up with my target fairly well with pounce spam.
  • Javelins are also extremely powerful with this spec. At times they'd hit for almost half of a squishy's health. Also, clairvoyance is a great summoner ability for this spec, since you can catch unsuspecting victims with Javelins.
  • Lich bane procs were good, but I don't think it ever outdid Trinity Force (from when I went damage spec, see more below)
  • She relies more on survivability with this spec, since her damage is more dependent on cat form. This is the reason for my Rod of Ages, but I could definitely see Rylai's being a solid alternative.
  • Team fights she plays as heavy support. Smaller encounters she plays hit & run.
  • I tried a couple of different boots. I actually really liked going Ninja Tabi since my games as AP spec had a lot of physical DPS. Gave her some really good kitty survivability.
  • I haven't yet tried Rylai's, but after reading other people's experiences with it I'd probably sub my RoA for it. I'll have to give it a go in the near future.

Damage Spec

Build: Sheen -> Berserk Boots -> Trinity Force (Phage first after sheen) -> Black Cleaver
Summoner Spells: Teleport, Ghost
Mastery Spec: 27/0/3
  • Damage is substancial, but not exceeding that of a true carry. Stacking some heavy damage with her and using her attack speed buff makes her very strong.
  • Trinity force procs are amazing. IMO you're actually not nerfing your kitty form DPS by much at all in Damage Spec, solely due to Trinity force.
  • Javelin still hits pretty hard. Heal is still fairly substancial.
  • The main advantage to this spec is that it gives her more options in team fights where Cougar form is too dangerous, but DPS needs to be done. She's less dependent on hit & run tactics.
  • You still serve as great support. None of her specs are really going to be truly single-tracked. You'll always be a hybrid.

Other Thoughts/Questions

  • Recommended items lists boots of mobility, and I've seen a few other Nidalees take them so far. I've never been a big fan, especially on her. Her passive already gives her a substancial movement speed boost when traveling across the map. The main times she needs movement speed is in combat.
  • Pounce is possibly her best ability. It's essentially a spammable movement speed increase that's unaffected by movement debuffs. It's absolutely phenomenal for putting just a little needed distance between yourself and a melee dps. Also great for chasing, and can be used to pass through some terrain.
  • I feel both specs are viable. I would probably go AP build if I was on a team with 2 or more carries, and damage build if we only had one other carry. I don't see her being a viable primary carry.
  • On the Test Realm, it was reported that her Javelin damage increase was based on the distance between her and her target at the time of impact, not at the time she launched it. This meant that you could increase your Javelin damage by throwing it and then running away. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
  • What are everyone's experiences with pouncing through terrain? I've found a few good places to pounce through. You can make it through the backs of both dragon/baron spawns, and any of the ledges. However, I haven't been able to get myself to pass through treelines yet, seems they're too thick.

EDIT: Just realized there's one thing I forgot to mention... how unbelievably FUN this character is. She's constantly able to switch roles, she's extremely active (constant ability use, no matter what the spec), she has a high skill margin, and she feels extremely smooth/intuitive to play.


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Hubbz

Member

12-18-2009

I have to agree with Nidalee being a really fun character to play with.

Laned with a Sivir and I had Tiamat. Holy ****. Throw heal on me and I'm pretending to be a mini Twitch. Throw heal on Sivir and it drops my FPS with hilarity.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

12-18-2009

Quote:
Meta:
I tried both specs on the test realm, and I played 9 games with her last night (trying different specs). Here are my findings so far:

AP Spec

Build: Sheen -> Boots -> Rod of Ages -> Lich Bane
Summoner Spells: Clairvoyance, Teleport
Mastery Spec: 9/0/21

  • Very viable support spec. Her heals are extremely powerful (I saved teammate's lives on several occasions). She makes a really good carry babysitter.
  • Kitty form DPS is great. Even without Rylai's, I was able to keep up with my target fairly well with pounce spam.
  • Javelins are also extremely powerful with this spec. At times they'd hit for almost half of a squishy's health. Also, clairvoyance is a great summoner ability for this spec, since you can catch unsuspecting victims with Javelins.
  • Lich bane procs were good, but I don't think it ever outdid Trinity Force (from when I went damage spec, see more below)
  • She relies more on survivability with this spec, since her damage is more dependent on cat form. This is the reason for my Rod of Ages, but I could definitely see Rylai's being a solid alternative.
  • Team fights she plays as heavy support. Smaller encounters she plays hit & run.
  • I tried a couple of different boots. I actually really liked going Ninja Tabi since my games as AP spec had a lot of physical DPS. Gave her some really good kitty survivability.
  • I haven't yet tried Rylai's, but after reading other people's experiences with it I'd probably sub my RoA for it. I'll have to give it a go in the near future.

Damage Spec

Build: Sheen -> Berserk Boots -> Trinity Force (Phage first after sheen) -> Black Cleaver
Summoner Spells: Teleport, Ghost
Mastery Spec: 27/0/3
  • Damage is substancial, but not exceeding that of a true carry. Stacking some heavy damage with her and using her attack speed buff makes her very strong.
  • Trinity force procs are amazing. IMO you're actually not nerfing your kitty form DPS by much at all in Damage Spec, solely due to Trinity force.
  • Javelin still hits pretty hard. Heal is still fairly substancial.
  • The main advantage to this spec is that it gives her more options in team fights where Cougar form is too dangerous, but DPS needs to be done. She's less dependent on hit & run tactics.
  • You still serve as great support. None of her specs are really going to be truly single-tracked. You'll always be a hybrid.



I actually mix and match a bit. Triforce is too good to pass up IMO, more expensive than Lichbane, but I like getting all the different boosts. Plus, it gives you an effect that does more damage until you've got a certain amount of AP, and doesn't have a time limit.

Incidentally, in the game I just played, I went my hybrid Triforce/Nashor's/Rylai's build against a DPS one and completely slaughtered her. Not sure how much that was player skill, but it certainly shows that AP doesn't lack for damage.

My gut instinct is that attack speed is a wasted stat for a DPS build. Primal Surge can buff that, and it doesn't help for Cougar Aspect, as it's basically ability spam. Raw damage to boost Takedown to horrible levels is the way to go. The exception to that is Nashor's for CD.

Also, go me. Just got enough CD runes that with utility masteries, I have 15% at lvl 18 ^^


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12-18-2009

Quote:
Basilisk9466:
I actually mix and match a bit. Triforce is too good to pass up IMO, more expensive than Lichbane, but I like getting all the different boosts. Plus, it gives you an effect that does more damage until you've got a certain amount of AP, and doesn't have a time limit.

The main reason I would ignore a Tri-force on AP Nidalee is because it's just that much extra time before you get a Rylai's. However, she's really one of those characters where just about any item will benefit her in some way or another.

Quote:
Basilisk9466:
Incidentally, in the game I just played, I went my hybrid Triforce/Nashor's/Rylai's build against a DPS one and completely slaughtered her. Not sure how much that was player skill, but it certainly shows that AP doesn't lack for damage.

AP most definitely does not lack in damage. The only main advantage of a Trifoce -> DMG spec would be that she gets RANGED damage, since most of her AP DPS is in Cougar form.

Quote:
Basilisk9466:
My gut instinct is that attack speed is a wasted stat for a DPS build. Primal Surge can buff that, and it doesn't help for Cougar Aspect, as it's basically ability spam. Raw damage to boost Takedown to horrible levels is the way to go. The exception to that is Nashor's for CD.


I completely agree. I would never build any attack speed items for her aside from what comes with Trinity Force. For my DMG spec I initially tried going Bloodthirster after TriForce, but the lifesteal didn't seem to be significant enough to justify it (I mean... you already have a heal...). Black Cleaver is the best choice imo.


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Quinnister

Recruiter

12-18-2009

Quote:
Lumifly:
Highly spammable abilities goes perfectly in hand with DPS. How many times have you played, say, Yi and just wished you had some actual attack spells to really trumpet out the damage? And because of Nidalee's spell, it takes a very small investment to cap attack speed, leaving you with 2 or 3 slots to do whatever you want with (depends on masteries and runes).

That said, AP is a lot of fun, since she scales well (at least currently . . . we'll see what happens with the nerf bat next patch cycle).


Of course, I'm looking at it from the perspective of having a having a Yi on my team who wished he had that bit of extra attack damage. That's where my buff comes in. I see Nidalee more as an AP/Tank with Frozen Heart + Brilliance Potion + Masteries to cap my CD%. Since she'll be romping around as cougar for a large bit of her damage, she'll be in melee range and need to not be squishy.

As a DPS, I can't see why you'd want to be her over someone like Tristana. Other DPSes just seem to have more tools at their disposal.