Summoner's Rift Detailed Art feedback

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Basedmoni

Senior Member

06-05-2014

I would make my own thread about this in hopes that RiotForScience or another Rioter who deals with the update could discuss this with me, but I'll just lay my thoughts out here:

I love the detail and the design in the update to the map, but I have a massive concern. I love LoL for its gameplay and its art design, and I have always loved the style changes that you guys have implemented (like including people like Darius and Braum along your more "cartoony" characters like Annie and Alistar, all of them seem to fit well and your visual updates I have loved every time).

In the Summoner's Rift update though, I am worried that you will make the map too dark. I like Dota 2, but I simply don't enjoy it as much and a huge factor in that for me is that the map at times feels depressing, especially on the Dire side. Seeing the preview of the SR update, the jungle seems VERY dark compared to how LoL looks now, and even the lanes seem either less color saturated or darker as well. I love that LoL is an arena, its essentially a tournament grounds, and the brightness of the map as it is now lends itself to that competitive arena feel, almost as if there are stadium lights shining down on the map. The new look really takes that feel away from me, and instead of giving that competition feel, gives it a sort of darker, more war like feel. Maybe you guys are trying to go for that style now, but I thought I would ask if that is your intended route with this update, and I'd really like to have a discussion with you about it so that we as a community can understand your direction and whether or not you want to preserve that older feel. I will always play League over other MOBA's simply because I love the mechanics and the flow of the game, but if the map is noticeably darker, I may find myself not putting as much time in as I would have in the past, despite the beauty of the new map.

Thanks for reading, and I hope to be able to talk about this with you soon!


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Get Swoll Son

Senior Member

06-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
We are finally ready to show the world the updates that we have been making to summoner's rift. Please check out our preview video.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/node/17076

I would love to hear your feedback!
Looks good so far. Dragon and the 'big wraith' replacement look great. Some feedback:

I notice that some of the visual indicators along the perimeter of Dragon pit (for example) are gone. These are important for jumping the wall with characters that can only *just* make it (Fizz for example). Are these going to be added or retained? They needn't be as obvious as the current ones, but I feel if they're lost completely, it could make the game a little frustrating (making the entire perimeter easily jumpable would also be a loss).

Baron looks really strange. A giant, skinny, worm tottering around on top of chair like legs? Perhaps you're struggling to match the idea in the cinematic ... but what you currently have definitely does not look like an improvement on live, either in fidelity or theme.

Textures - these look good, generally, and the darkening of many of them from their eye-bleedingly Disney/WoWish colour palette currently improves the mood, whilst not slipping into DoTA2-esque indistinct muddiness (my biggest gripe with the game). However, I really feel like you could increase the resolution of the texture maps and increase the poly counts slightly, bearing in mind that the game caters to a variety of graphical settings. Maybe an 'Ultra' option could be introduced for geometry and textures?

A criticism that could be applied to textures at any graphical settings on this new SR and TT & HA is that flat areas look incredibly flat, still. There's very little granularity and seemingly almost no geometry ... therefore there's this strange and slightly jarring dichotomy between areas of 'terrain' and lanes / areas between camps, which look like painted asphalt, in comparison.

Thanks!


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Klien Kurai

Member

06-05-2014

So, i'd like to start by saying that im glad the rift is getting some love after so long and is much needed.
so to start ill say that i see a lot of resemblance to Dota2, now i dont play Dota but from ive played it shows some similarities to the art style of whatever map dota plays on. although there are huge differences in how they look which make the rift so much better.
the color pallet for one is something i think Riot and its art team has nailed for a long time whether it be with champs, VU's, and map. the colors in the rift VU are spot on, not tending to be to dark or to light both sides are well balanced and have a nice saturation that's gives depth and richness to the rift.

the new jungle mobs are good not crazy about the new blue buff and wight they dont look like they fit. im also not to fond of the rocky landscape going on the the "jungle" gives the jungle which is supposed to look or resemble a jungle into a sort of desolate area. other than that looks cool

the new minions look alright not much to say about them, but the base areas look sleek and well polished.

so in short im not sure whether i like the new rift or not yet, one thing that i really didn't like about Dota2 was the map. it was cluttered the color palette was a mess, and there was just stuff everywhere. but rift has a simpleness to it while holding its value as a first rate map that i really enjoy.

also as a question will the rift cause frame problems for lower end comps?, i know for myself howling abyss has lower frames than rift for some reason.

-Klien

(side note: i dont write long posts like this, so its not very well written sorry)


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RiotForScience

Senior Environment Artist

06-05-2014
88 of 92 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basedmoni View Post
I would make my own thread about this in hopes that RiotForScience or another Rioter who deals with the update could discuss this with me, but I'll just lay my thoughts out here:

I love the detail and the design in the update to the map, but I have a massive concern. I love LoL for its gameplay and its art design, and I have always loved the style changes that you guys have implemented (like including people like Darius and Braum along your more "cartoony" characters like Annie and Alistar, all of them seem to fit well and your visual updates I have loved every time).

In the Summoner's Rift update though, I am worried that you will make the map too dark. I like Dota 2, but I simply don't enjoy it as much and a huge factor in that for me is that the map at times feels depressing, especially on the Dire side. Seeing the preview of the SR update, the jungle seems VERY dark compared to how LoL looks now, and even the lanes seem either less color saturated or darker as well. I love that LoL is an arena, its essentially a tournament grounds, and the brightness of the map as it is now lends itself to that competitive arena feel, almost as if there are stadium lights shining down on the map. The new look really takes that feel away from me, and instead of giving that competition feel, gives it a sort of darker, more war like feel. Maybe you guys are trying to go for that style now, but I thought I would ask if that is your intended route with this update, and I'd really like to have a discussion with you about it so that we as a community can understand your direction and whether or not you want to preserve that older feel. I will always play League over other MOBA's simply because I love the mechanics and the flow of the game, but if the map is noticeably darker, I may find myself not putting as much time in as I would have in the past, despite the beauty of the new map.

Thanks for reading, and I hope to be able to talk about this with you soon!

This is definately the right place to post.

Concerning the feeling of "Darkness" in the update. We are carefully clamping the values and colors and saturation to ensure that gameplay stays really clear. This means that for teamfights to be as clear as possible the environment needs less saturated color and less value contrast than the VFX, the HUD and the Champions. Internally we call this the "4th read principle". This palate choice is not made in comparison to any other product, but just what is right for LoL long term.

It is a design choice

That being said I think we are really successful at retaining our tone out in the lanes. It is an issue that we are still wrangling throughout the map. We are listening.


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Basedmoni

Senior Member

06-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
This is definately the right place to post.

Concerning the feeling of "Darkness" in the update. We are carefully clamping the values and colors and saturation to ensure that gameplay stays really clear. This means that for teamfights to be as clear as possible the environment needs less saturated color and less value contrast than the VFX, the HUD and the Champions. Internally we call this the "4th read principle". This palate choice is not made in comparison to any other product, but just what is right for LoL long term.

It is a design choice

That being said I think we are really successful at retaining our tone out in the lanes. It is an issue that we are still wrangling throughout the map. We are listening.
Thanks for replying! I definitely did not mean to say that the game looks like Dota 2, as the art style is still very clearly League of Legends (and I love it, by the way) especially the new jungle monsters and background "off" the Rift. It really gives the feeling that the Rift actually exists and that there is a world outside of that arena.

Just a quick note, I originally watched the video on my phone, and then watched it minimized on my desktop. After watching it again, fullscreen and in max quality, I can see that the colors and brightness aren't actually as dark as I thought they were, especially in base and in the lanes (it probably was due to the fact that before I had watched the video surrounded by the white youtube page, so it seemed darker). I completely understand the choice to make the palate the way you have, as Garen and the monsters in the video already seemed to stand out more than on the current map.

Thanks again for replying to me, and I look forward to playing the map in-game!


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Noctes setcoN

Senior Member

06-05-2014

I like the "darkness" honestly.

It seems a lot of people think the whole map is dark, when it's really only in the jungle. The rest of the map (the bases and the lanes, honestly where most of the action should be taking place) are much more vibrant.

The darkness within the jungle gives a good mood, one of actually being in a Forest. Forests are dark, people. There's a lot of trees, and they block out a lot of sun.


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Thales

Senior Member

06-05-2014

Is it theoretically possible to make it so that the contrast and saturation tamp down a little bit when the game detects that a fight is going on? Locally, of course, so top lane doesn't get graphical distortions from a gank down in bot lane. Or would that be too distracting?


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RiotForScience

Senior Environment Artist

06-05-2014
89 of 92 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thales View Post
Is it theoretically possible to make it so that the contrast and saturation tamp down a little bit when the game detects that a fight is going on? Locally, of course, so top lane doesn't get graphical distortions from a gank down in bot lane. Or would that be too distracting?

I think it is a great idea, our shaders do not currently support that tech but I can see where you are going with it.


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SailorPikaMars

Junior Member

06-05-2014

I love the map its very beautiful you guys did such a great job on this map like wow like its really really beautiful I love it, The new monsters look insanely cool they are so good . Everything is just very pretty. I also love how the map looks like its from Atlantis: The Lost Empire movie that's why I love the map so much. That one Skarner skin would fit in so much with this map.

But here's the part that bother me a little and I don't want to say it cause I feel like I'm stomping on your creation that you love very much but since you guys ask for feedback I feel I should probably give it cause it might help, I don't know.

So the new map looks less adultish and more childish. It looks like a map that Zac belongs in but not Jinx or Yasuo if that makes any sense. I feel like the battles that happen there are going to be less epic cause the scenery is like I said less adultish. I think it might be because its beautiful and pretty/cute and it doesn't look like a battlefield where your trying to kill everyone and be OP.

If I were to have a say in this I would say make this map that would be optional or something like the same game mode but just a different change of scenery for the people who want to play it. I don't know I love it but I also don't like the fact that it looks a little childish and that it looks like its suppose to made for an adventure game on the Wii or something.

Uh I feel bad now cause I'm basically stomping on your creation that you worked so hard on. I'm a horrible person and I'm going to get so much hate for saying this.


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The Neverworld

Senior Member

06-05-2014

I am sorry if I'm wrong here, just had to ask out of curiousity.

Months ago I made a custom Champion who is like always invincible but will be revealed upon attacking and when he enters light sources(Campfires, blue/purple crystals, torches, towers). I think one Rioter or someone else mentioned that it could be hard to implement due to the current map/technology.

In theory, with this new visual update, could be ever made something similiar - like an Champion who is focused on the environment.