Skarner, I miss your kind

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Mainframe

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Hi. I was a Skarner main back in S2, and at the time I never thought I would switch mains. When he was nerfed however, I immediately stopped playing him because I no longer found him fun. At the time, these two things made him fun for me:

-High global presence because the speed boost was almost spammable. When it's base cooldown was nerfed as badly as it was, his mobility became very low.

-Strong front-line presence in teamfights because the shield was spammable. You could absorb a lot more damage for your team without dying. This made him much more satisfying for me to play as a tank.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Seeing the enemy jungle gank one of my lanes, pressing W, and feeling like I'm suiting up for a countergank.
Finding someone who's carry-diving, and making them sad by standing next to my carry and pressing Q repeatedly.
(In ARMA's) Pressing E.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being kited.
Teams blaming you for losing teamfights because you're not a 'real' initiator.
(IN ARAM's) Pressing E.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
The Q chain CC that's almost impossible to escape without (and sometimes even with) Flash for some champions.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
The unique utility that Skarner's ult provides is almost irreplaceable by any other champion. Thresh and Blitzcrank have abilities that are similar, and that are equally as effective against enemies that can kite. As a general teamfight initiator, Skarner is nowhere near the best, and there have been better initiators since Skarner's release.

Iceborn Gauntlet, when built on any champion who can chain spells for long periods of time (Malphite, Evelynn, Ezreal, etc.) replaces Skarner's Q in almost every respect. Since the first activation of Skarner Q actually doesn't have any CC, Iceborn Gauntlet as an item seems to make Skarner Q obsolete. As a peeling champion, Skarner is nowhere near the best and has gotten worse due to his nerfs and due to S3 itemization.


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Fendral

Senior Member

07-30-2013

I love Skarner. I like his lore, his character, and the idea of him. I will be upfront and say that I haven't read all the comments in this thread. I apologize for stepping on any preceding toes, but at least we think similarly.

One of my favorite things about Skarner is his impetus. Skarner's current design rewards prolonged, considered, combat (as long as mana lasts). He keeps slowing, clawing, slashing, healing, and shielding as he fights. Please preserve this aspect of Skarner. If anything, I think this could be enhanced. Currently, Skarner is a sub-par duelist because of his mana costs and lack of sustain.

It's too costly and difficult to itemize for a large mana pool, mana regen, tenacity, sustain, health, resistances, movement speed, and jungle items. He needs a skill overhaul and I'm so pleased that you're looking at him!

Skarner's Q is frustrating to play against when you don't have a mobility skill to instantly create distance. However, it is almost completely useless against characters that do have such a mechanic, which is terribly frustrating. I also find it annoying that Skarners passive in no way interacts with his Q even though his Q is a a primary foundation of his being. Oftentimes I want to autoattack to regain my ultimate more quickly, but I don't have the liberty of time to spend hacking slowly away at minions without using Q. Could you please allow his Q to interact with his passive in some fashion?

Skarner's shield (W) is a nice HP buffer, but it doesn't have any resistances to synergize with. By coupling the offense, defense, and initiation all into one skill (that crumbles with the shield's failing) you put too much of Skarner's power into one, vulnerable, aspect. I like your idea of distributing the offensive element to the E proc (as long as you control the mana cost). However, this doesn't address the issue of his vulnerability to kiting or his lack of tankiness/mobility. I don't want to give him 'ignore unit collision' because his ultimate is too powerful, but perhaps his shield could reduce the effectiveness of slows similar to what boots of swiftness provides?

His E is a sorry excuse for an ability. The heal is only useful top when you can't take too much harassment. It is always leveled last. I'd like to see it have an impact on the game, but if you put all of his offensive ability in the activation of the mark you're forcing Skarner to rely on a very short range skill shot. He will inevitably sustain damage and risk being kited while trying to activate it to become battle-effective. This sounds awful. It also does nothing to improve his condition.

There is a lot of theme and promise to Skarner. I would love to see his E redesigned to be something similar to Fizz's Playful / Trickster or something that can allow him to sluff off at least slows. Honestly, there isn't a lot of dynamic play to Skarner. Surge forward, get two slashes off, keep slashing until it's time to use R so you can keep slashing.

I'd love it if there were something that could be used to set one player apart from another. Ask yourself, how do you recognize a good Skarner player from any good Jungler? What does he specially bring that other Junglers won't bring better?


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TheDIVISI0NBell

Junior Member

07-30-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
being able to stick on to someone forever once you get going
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
being basically useless when you w (crystalline exoskeleton) is on cooldown
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
when he gets ahead he is unkillable
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
i wouldnt even say a champion does skarner's job but an item, anybody who buys frozen malllet becomes the slow bot that skarner is just slightly less effective


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KalastRaven

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Here's another upgrade for his E.

Skarner enters a Burrowing movement mode for the next 3 Seconds. While burrowing, he is untargetable, but the burrowing leaves a visible trail for all champions to see. When Skarner emerges from Burrowing, he deals 60/100/140/180/220 (+0.4 AP) magic damage to everyone within 150 of him. You can press E a second time to emerge early.


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Scruffalafugus

Junior Member

07-30-2013

So there is another Scruff... O.o and skarner seems very reliant on his w, without it, his effectiveness seems to drop significantly


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DptBear

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

My two cents: I do not like the idea of giving him attack speed from his E unless it becomes a viable level 2nd ability. It would really hurt his mid game jungling, especially since the changes against AOE junglers (stronger big monsters, weaker small ones). As is, I consider him to have a Q W and R, his E I do not even bother getting until everything else is maxed. If his utility is split into his E without improving other things drastically, he will be further ruined.

As for the slow ramping UP on his W, I would make it wind DOWN. He needs a gap closing ability, and doing what you say will not help him with that unless he has time to charge it up, like Hecarim, who has to activate it when he is FAR away (not something that I think meshes well with his kit). He should blast himself forward with his shield and then slow down. That said, I also think Udyr should do this. Kayle's movespeed change on her shield should have gone to Udyr, while she should have the longer term smaller boost.

Making his E into something worthwhile is where I would change him, personally. That and maybe give him more innate tankiness. He SHOULD be a problem when he gets in close, but to balance that I like the idea of making him capable of permaslowing someone WITH room for counterplay (well timed knockbacks, jumps, boosts etc. By making his slow sharper like wither but deteriorate, someone could detach from him inbetween procs, but would be within his grasp should they mistime their escape.


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Kron0x

Junior Member

07-30-2013

I really like his E heal. I would be sad to see it go away but i do like some of these changes that we are looking at for skarner! But I feel buffing his W shield percentage would make him too strong for top lane :c


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PodunkTheMighty

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.
If you're not planning on nerfing him you're going to have to raise a lot of numbers to make the Q change okay. His permaslow is pretty much all he has going for him. Also, what's the deal with decaying slow? It seems like virtually every slow on a new character decays.


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EraOfGames

Junior Member

07-30-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

Slowing people forever and ulting the enemy carry like a true predator

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

Heavily relying on flash/movement speed to initiate since he doesn't have instant gap closers and the gap-closer he has can be broken; most of all people blinking out of Skarner's ult. Very anti-climatic when Skarner says "They'll never escape!" and they get out of your ult.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

I haven't really played against Skarner for a good while

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

Vi and Udyr. Vi's ult is better then Skarner's since it's a huge gapcloser AND chases after they blink. Udyr doesn't rely on a shield for speed with a generally better gap closer and his stun can't be flashed unlike Skarner ult.

EDIT: I want to say while not really frustrating, Skarner's E is almost useless in jungle. But it is broken as an AP top laner as his sustain becomes ridiculous spamming W and E having while also having low CDs from passive, similar to turtle Udyr but worse. His E is either really bad or really good, should probably be fixed.


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IS1bb1d4d770285b9130297

Junior Member

07-30-2013

I play a lot of Skarner (EUW). To fix the problem with the permaslow, I think a mechanic similar to Statikk Shiv would work well with his kit, allowing him to choose when to Q to press earlier for damage. Will give players more choice and also allows for counter play as there will be a gap in the slow.