Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.

You srsly just used a point that is continuously shot down by most of the balance team.

They said they dont go by play rate or win rate


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oldRakdos

Senior Member

07-29-2013

. What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Running from the jungle or initiating a fight by pulling the adc or the fed enemy champ while running using everthing you got (ghost, W, boots etc) and the abilitie to run to the side of a enemy champ and manage to do damage without stoping doing auto attack (in others word spam the Q while chasing)

Edit: Also the way that you can tower dive with him, get close ult, escape with W and the shield take some damage from the turret and that you allies (if the pay attetion kill the guy)

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
E do little damage and in battle the heal is kinda poor and that the buff you get for using W dissapear when the shield is down, and mana issues early

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Get pulled by his R

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
one of the jobs of skarner is to grab a enemy champ, maybe others champ can´t move them but have a long range is their ability that give the change to kill the poor bastard, example Vi Ult or Maokai W


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Gamejumper

Junior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

I feel that Skarner's ultimate, feels solid and impactful, while his q and w highlights his strong jungle clear.
Skarner is highly gold efficient and can build support, tank or carry builds.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

Skarner is easily kitable, more so than other junglers, this forces him to build reverie far too often, even when building tanky, or carry-like. I feel that this is a restriction to skarner, and with BOTRK effectively hard countering him (breaks his W shield, removes almost all his gap closing ability) His E feels utility-impaired, and his is far too easy too break considering the utility that he desperately needs. Skarner cannot do any damage to tanks, or disrupt champions attempting to kill his adc effectively without his ult.

Are there champions that do Skarner's job better than he does? Why?
Udyr and Volibear have superior movement speed, damage, and tankiness. They are less kitable, and provide much needed early game gank pressure. Skarner is hindered by his reliance on his ultimate.

Suggestions for His E
I'm not sure if anyone else has had this idea, but perhaps keep his e the same, but make it a one point wonder.

Instead of a just being a heal for lane skarners, make his e mark penetrate all targets (neutral monsters, champions, minions) and can be procced by all his abilities.

Q: When his q procs Skarner's e mark, it deals bonus damage+slows target (stacking with original q slow)

(This provides the choice for a stronger slow against slippery champions such as ezreal, fizz, etc.)

W: Add a slight aoe damage component to his W and let the shield/aoe damage be doubled by his E mark

(This prevents the immediate destruction of his shield as it's stronger, and last longer, and allows for lane skarners to clear alot faster. It also makes the choice between W for engage, or W for tankiness)

E: Basic Attacks proc his E heal.

(Lane Skarner sustain is not removed)

R: When your E is procced by ult, double the damage, and give skarner a movement speed buff, so that he the ult feels stronger overall.

Suggestions for other parts of his kit.

R-2: Make his Ultimate a two part ablity, where he primes his stinger, and uses it. The priming period is 8 seconds long and allows him to gain movement speed. He can use his ultimate within the 8 seconds of movement speed buffs. He can also choose not to use it. If he doesn't use it, halve the cooldown of his ult instead.

(This ultimate removes his reliance on shurelyas, makes him less kitable, and matches the nature of a surprise attack.)

tl;dr Skarner is too easy to kite, his e feels too weak, and he is countered by buying a single BOTRK. His E should remain the same, but modify his other abilities to provide a reason to keep e on his jungle, and preserve lane skarner's healing capability. His ultimate should have two parts, one where he gains a temporary movement speed buff, and the other his signature stinger/grab/death mark. The ultimate cooldown will be halved if not used.


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runek

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Hello Scruffy, great job so far!

Taking into account your current changes, here is where I would go next:

remove the slow from Q entirely. consequently, landing one Q only increases the damage of Skarner's next Q. allow this effect to stack up to two (or even three?) times, encouraging Skarner's 'sticky' playstyle and rewarding players for landing this bread-and-butter damaging spell.

overhaul E: change the targeting paradigm from a line skillshot to a VERY low-range ground targeted area of effect about the size of Galio's Resolute Smite. this would be an instant cast ability and castable while moving. with a similar sort of animation (uses his tail to lunge forward), Skarner slows and interrupts (a la Quinn E) targets caught in the aoe. if Skarner hits a target, he gains attack speed.


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A Stick

Junior Member

07-29-2013

I used to main Skarner in S2, prob had around 700-800 games with him.

Well, to answer your first question, obviously his ult is amazing. If someone gets out of position, let's say adc or apc, you can flash and ult them to your team. Most frustrating aspects of playing Skarner is that he is really weak early game due to an immense CD nerf. Also, with item changes, junglers usually don't get philo stone anymore. Skarner's main item is obviously Shurelyas but then again junglers will fall behind way too much if they spend their gold on something like Shurelyas and won't give them the late game stats that Skarner used to get. Also, Skarner has too many counters. With all the new champions that are coming out with alot of CC (mostly slows), Skarner isn't really able to do his job correctly with all the CC's. Lastly, his E is almost useless. It doesn't do any dmg or has no CC. My suggestion is that to change his E ability to something else such as removing CC like morgana's shield. To answer your third question, it's really not that frustrating to play against Skarner because of all the nerfs he got. Skarner can't really clear his jungle fast as before and the mana cost on him is just too much early game. Also, with the nerf on his ult that you can flash out of it just made Skarner boring because I used to time my ults for their flashes but now I can't. And even if I fail, there's like 5 seconds CD which I also think is stupid. For now, every jungler with hard CC early game does way better than Skarner. Skarner actually has to go up close because he has no gap closers which just sucks early game. Skarner is just like Udyr but Udyr actually has a stun whereas Skarner has no CC unless his W is turned on and you Q him at the same time.


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McPooned

Junior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
- Being able to completely swing a team fight by picking out one of the enemy team carries.
What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
- Very frustrating when mid lane needs blue, mana is a big problem. Also his E is nearly worthless early/mid game. Lastly, You can't gank early... Almost worthless when playing against a decent player.
What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
- Not much... Buy a QSS and then no problem.
Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
- Probably J4, he just has way more utility and CC, wich much stronger early ganks.


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porouscloud

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Junior Member

07-29-2013

Q - too expensive manawise. Skarner really shouldn't be mana gated on Q that hard, especially with how much a low CD skill synergizes with his passive.
W - IMO just keep the stats even if the shield goes out. For an initiating champion, the shield really provides no utility. Maybe shifting some of the things between
E - This is the skill that really needs a rework. Almost never leveled until you ran out of other skills to put points into because quite frankly, it doesn't do a whole lot in the jungle. Too expensive to use for sustain without blue buff, doesn't do enough damage in a gank, and the heal passive is pretty clunky. Stick something useful here and skarner will be fine IMO.
R - Fix edge cases. That's all I'm asking.


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oldRakdos

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Ok, it seems like we are in pretty near agreement about Skarner's problems. He is definitely still a fun character, so we are not going to scrap his kit or something severe like that. I think a combination of a few good changes could really bring him back into a nice sweet spot as a viable champ.

I am going to try these changes out and do some playtesting to see how they affect him. No guarantees that these are the right changes or the ones that will end up being in the final set.

I think a really powerful change that would make Skarner's kit more clear in its usage and counterplay would be to focus the W and E abilities more for a single purpose each. W can be his defensive and gap closing ability exclusively. Inversely, E can be more focused as a brawling/jungle clearing/damaging ability.

Overall
-Overall mana costs reduced (probably looking at E first its super costly)

Q
-Hopefully removing permaslow by making the slow only occur on every other Q instead of all Qs after the first. To balance the loss in slow duration here, I want to make it a much stronger slow that decays over time but leaves gaps for people to counterplay. Hopefully this will be fun for skarner players too because they can now make some smart decisions when they want to use the new more powerful Q slow.

W
-Increase the movespeed buff so that it is closer to other similar champs like Udyr and Volibear
-Possibly make the movespeed ramp up over time so its not too powerful of an escape "get out of jail free" ability
-Lower cooldown back to 14s from 18s like it was a few patches ago
-Strengthen the shield amount/AP ratios (to compensate for the loss of heal from E)
-Remove attack speed from the W buff

E
-Instead of the heal, proccing the E mark on targets will now give skarner his attack speed buff
-Increase total damage, but split it up so that only some is up front and the rest happens when you proc the mark
-Reduce mana cost
-Look into better usability (faster projectile, faster cast, etc) may be one or all of these

R
-Fix more edge cases so that the R will reliably go off on targets once it has been cast


These are still very much work in progress, and I still want your input on how you feel about these changes. I will also keep coming back to fill you all in on how these changes feel in internal playtesting.
WAIT I DONT LIKE THAT HE IS LOOSING HIS AUTO-HEAL if he loose that he is going to be more potion depend early game when jungling, i dont like junglers that dont have a way to self-heal

i know is my personal opinion but that thing whit rageblade give great sustain when the second passive of rageblade activate


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iRideAnUrf

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooby plz View Post
• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Flash ulting enemy carries into your team.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
When your ult starts casting but stops when that nidalee pounces away, then you flash after her when you realize you didnt actually ult her and she pounces breaking channel again and escapes with sliver of hp. I've had this happen to me, worst feeling ever.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
I cant really tell because noone plays skarner in my games but id imagine that it would be getting ulted by him over and over every fight.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
I believe champions like jarvan,vi,zac outclass him as tanky bruiser with their gabclosers and better overall cc. Which is why i think riot should push him to be more of an ap fighter like diana instead of bulwark/locket bot jungler. Making him more viable top lane would be amazing too.
This.


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Balancer

Member

07-29-2013

let me start this off by saying that i play skarner in a sort of different way. i havent tried it too much in ranked which i know is a big caveat, but i still destroy almost every normal i play him in.

I build an AP skarner with max cdr (chalice and nashor's/morello) and tank AP items, with a rabadons mixed in there somewhere.

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

With max cdr combined with skarner's passive, skarner becomes even more of an extremely active champion ability-wise. As ap, his biggest nuke is his E, and since the heal also scales with AP, his sustain in lane is unstoppable with the exception that he has to push to take advantage of it. his shield is off cooldown very often and with AP becomes essentially another heal in battle (off topic, but shields basically equal a heal if they are fully used before their duration is off). Also his ult becomes a formidable nuke (1:1 ap ratio total) on top of its already game-changing utility.

but honestly, probably the MOST fun thing about skarner overall (no matter the build) is the synergy of his ult with other champions' spells. there is SO much potential here, but my favorite is when my friend plays Pantheon and ults in: i can ult the enemy and keep him right in the center of panth's jump to take max damage and there's nothing they can do about it! other potential synergies are teemo's shrooms, (traps in general), any timed ground targeted ability, nunu's ult, etc etc, the list goes on and on. very few other champions have the same potential for utility as skarner does, and for his ult alone i could not love Riot enough. it motivates SO much creativity that i feel he is extremely underplayed. ok rant on his ult is over.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

well his most blaring shortcoming is his range. his E is his longest range and it's really not much. to counteract this is his shield, which for me (with my AP build) is up very often and can speed me up to catch almost anybody.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

since he's so underplayed, i havent had much experience against him, ill be honest. some things that come to mind are his sustain in lane and stickiness overall, but honestly this is what skarner's kit is made for, ultimate stickiness.

Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

First one that comes to mind is Udyr. has the same megaspeed as skarner, a short cooldown stun (as opposed to skar's slow), tons of tankiness and shielding, and a decent damage output even if built as a tank. i think a problem with skar is that his damage drops heavily when he builds as a tank, while other champs like udyr, lee sin, singed, etc. can have the same crazy mobility and nearly as much stickiness while dishing out a bit more damage.

-------------------------------------------------

honestly, skarner is one of my favorite champions in the league. add to that that sandscourge skarner is one of my favorite skins in all of league and he's overall just an amazing champion to me. i see a lot of skarners building tank, triforce, even bruiser stuff, and when i play AP skarner, i cant help but think riot just pushed the champion in an "incorrect" direction. i put quotes because any correct direction can be argued. maybe push him more towards an "ap bruiser", sort of the same vein has diana (a little less assassin-esque), singed, or even nautilus and alistar. (i build nautilus the same way i do skar LOL)

lastly, i'm pretty happy with his kit as it is now. please dont change his playstyle too much! and OH GOD PLEASE dont change his ult! it's such a gamechanger.

thanks for reading!