Skarner, I miss your kind

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DeRPNT

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Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
-Perma-slow, flash ult initiation, level 6 ganking

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
-Skarner's dependency on "needing" flash to initiate advantageously. If he doesn't have it, he gets a face-full of kite damage when trying to initiate.
-His "E" is near useless and feels unrewarding
-I miss my Q sometimes when I'm in constant pursuit of an enemy due to my auto attacks putting me behind. Idk if it's just me or something, but maybe make Q an activated auto attack enhancer (like jax empower) that applies on auto attacks instead of a point blank aoe.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
-Perma-slow, getting flash-ulted when my own flash is down

Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
-Hecarim because he has a more consistent method of initiation that doesn't require flash and can't be kited while initiating, much like Malphite. His pre-6 ganks are viable, but Skarner's pre-6 ganks feel lackluster since his cc isn't instantly applied til a while after engaging the gank, giving the enemy ample time to escape.


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DanDPanda

Junior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
- I love playing Skarner because I love the way he is able to stick to a target while doing tons of damage

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
- The most frustrating thing about Skarner are his jungle clear times, his mana problems and his useless E

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
- The thing I hate the most when playing against Skarner is the amount of damage he is able to dish out

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
- I think champs like Hecarim and Udyr do Skarner's job better then he does because they also deal a ton of damage, and they can apply hard CC to multiple targets, whereas Skarner can only ult a single target and slow the rest


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Rotom

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Flash pulling the enemy carry and ending the game immediately off that assuming they didn't buy a QSS/MS

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Unless playing him AP his E is a worthless skill due to massive mana cost for relatively little sustain, the ult-flash interaction that was changed in the patch that killed him sucks too

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
The more I kill him in his own jungle when I'm playing a hero that's actually good, the less he's worth

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Hecarim outclasses him in every single way


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Raptor6789

Senior Member

07-29-2013

If you ever want to do anything with his E, please eliminate or substantially reduce the cast time. As it is now, using an E early on is often counter-productive because it prevents Skarner from sticking to his targets.


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Marzbar

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
-Scruff

1. I love that he's a monster champ. I love making clutch plays with flash grabs,and that the ult is both defensive and offensive. His kit allows some good item diversity since nothing is too terrible on him. Also i love running in lane and people blowing flash, regardless if i have my ult or not

2. Hmm...honestly there isnt really much. I have started red buff before and i cant honestly say he is mana dependant. I dont think there is much about skarner in general that i consider unfun. Something ive heard my friends say is that skarner really only has 3 abilities and that they think e is useless but i ive seen e come in real handy

3. If ive played against many i wouldve let you know.

4. Skarner fills his own niche as a tanky cc factory. He excels in peeling if using his ult defensively and is an amazing play maker with his ult. If you have big disruption ults like Grag or janna you can literally make the fight a 5v4.


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Drakore4

Member

07-29-2013

Honestly i don't think Skarner really needs a rework. Maybe buff his E a little yea but don't change him or any of his abilities. You should just do what you just did with Udyr, give him an amazing new skin that everyone will buy and play. As for his win rates, I've seen Skarners do amazingly well. Most of the time it's not because anything is wrong with the character, it's that hes a higher tier of champion to play and thus harder to do well with if you haven't had much experience with the role you're playing or just the champion itself. In fact, if you ask me, I think Poppy is the one that needs a rework.


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey All,
I’m going to be doing some Skarner work and right here is one of the best places to start. There has been a great thread in the Champion Feedback forum (shoutout to Irish Red Cap) with a lot of good discussion on how people are feeling about Skarner’s current state.

So I’ve been doing some digging and unfortunately, poor Skarner is being picked 80% less this year than he was last year. Some of this might be from some nerfs he has received, but it may also be because newer champs are outclassing him in what he does best. Either way, I think we all agree that Skarner could benefit from a few improvements to make him more fun/viable for both Skarner players and their opponents. Keep in mind, the goal here is not "make Skarner OP." There will always have to be strengths and weaknesses to all champions.

Before we get to any of the potential changes, we need to figure out what Skarner’s strengths and weaknesses are right now. I have a few questions for you all, and you can answer these as a SKarner player or even as someone who only has experience playing against Skarner.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

I have my own personal answers to these questions, but I may be only seeing one side of the coin. There are some Skarner players out there with wayyy more experience that I have, and I think there is a lot of valuable information that I may be missing. I have a feeling that once we get talking, we will come to some very useful conclusions. GOGOGO

-Scruff
As an avid Skarner player
The most fun aspect of playing Skarner is dragging someone to their doom and constantly auto attacking. The interaction between his passive and his skills is really satisfying, being able to get in the auto attack to get your shield back up just in time to help you win a duel or survive a tower dive is one of my favorite things in league.

The most frustrating part of playing Skarner is feeling robbed out of your ultimate so often. Also the nerf to his shield on top of the season 3 itemization changes felt bad.

The most frustrating part about playing against Skarner is probably the feeling helplessness when you get ulted.

I think Skarner is able to fill multiple roles and no one else really does it all as well as him. There are better gankers, there are better farmers, there are better counter junglers, many of them have much more flexible builds. The build flexibility/income problem is one of the big reasons for his lack of popularity imo and why other junglers are picked over him.


With Skarner I really wanted a few things
To feel powerful with my shield, it keeps me alive and empowers the rest of my kits and lets me function. Having the shield in a weak state feels bad. No shield = less auto attacking, less slowing, less damge, less shields, fewer ganks/ultimates.
The ability to isolate someone. If I can run the gauntlet through your team to reach a priority target I want to rewarded.
Don't give a **** about E, the Q+W+passive interaction defines Skarner for me (ofc + impale)
A skin plox, his release skins are really lame. MECHA SKARNER WHERE RIOT!

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CadisEtramaDeRai

Junior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner? - His mobility/tankiness from W and permaslow from Q which makes him such a great jungler and overall his CC from his ulti to completely shut down any champion in team fights rendering them useless for the duration.
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner? - Probably being kited very easily by enemy CC, getting through the jungle slower than most jungler now since his Q is weak and doesn't clear fast although he has W to boost attk speed and Q to AoE, very mana reliant and isn't going to do very well without golem buff, squishy too, and his E is just practically useless does no damage and doesn't provide the sustain he needs, and his W being on a really long cooldown now.
What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner? - Being permaslowed once he gets into his range and his mobility to get away along with tank all in one skill. Lastly his ultimate that is like Malz but is movable.
Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why? - Yes most jungler at the moment besides Warwick I would say since Warwick doesn't have any CC potential until lvl 6. Jarvan because he's fast at clearing and he has damage/knock-up to kill an enemy along with his ultimate to dunk. Elise because of her damage from Q and her long range of CC/escape with E also she can tank Baron easily. Zac super long range engage, his Q slows, and his ultimate allows him to avoid CC while CCing the team. Lee Sin because he is able to help his team disengage with his E and R along with usuing those for kill potential by slowing them or slowing ADCs attk speed by a lot Q is just overall strong and yeah. There's more I would say but this should be enough.

-From a jungle main and a Skarner player


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Daeste

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.
What if Skarner's E put a mark on the target and a Q would proc the mark to slow the target. Granted the slow would be much strong or.. longer lasting and procing the mark would reduce the cool down of his E.

The AS should stay on his shield I think.


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Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Q
-hopefully removing permaslow by making the slow only occur on every other q instead of all qs after the first. To balance the loss in slow duration here, i want to make it a much stronger slow that decays over time but leaves gaps for people to counterplay. Hopefully this will be fun for skarner players too because they can now make some smart decisions when they want to use the new more powerful q slow.
I'm kind of torn for the removal of perma-slow. On the one hand, it's great for the players against Skarner and removes a lot of the frustrations of being totally screwed with no options. On the other, I'm kind of worried about how anything else could work on him.

I like the idea of being able to choose when I want to use an empowered ability for that great slow, but the way Skarner's kit works right now doesn't really give much of a choice either. Because of his pasive and the low cooldown on his Q, it's just great damage (and reads like you should be) spamming every time it's up. It's a really painful choice if it comes down to 'giant dps hit' or 'slow this guy', without really getting an inbetween. Q would need to be way less spammy to let you pick when you want to use it then what it is now.

Just my current fear about it.

Quote:
W
-increase the movespeed buff so that it is closer to other similar champs like udyr and volibear
-possibly make the movespeed ramp up over time so its not too powerful of an escape "get out of jail free" ability
-lower cooldown back to 14s from 18s like it was a few patches ago
-strengthen the shield amount/ap ratios (to compensate for the loss of heal from e)
-remove attack speed from the w buff
I really like strengthening the shield and increasing the mobility, but I don't really like the idea of giving it a ramp up. It could be because the skill gives attack speed now on live, you want to save it for an immediate burst of speed to grab and pull a target and get the most out of it. Especially if you manage to land a good hook and then get Exoskeleton out, you can cover some pretty decent ground. If it ramps up, it may become an indirect nerf to his ult by not letting him cover the ground he needs on demand.

(Also, honestly this is petty, but I don't feel like Skarner should be singled out again. Volibear, while conditional, Mundo, Udyr and the like all get an immediate boost to their speed and function as escapes. I don't want to see Skarner lose out to other champions in iconic ways again, like the removal of flash-grabs. It took several patches for others like Singed to lose that ability, and it hurt as a Skarner player to be singled out like that.)

Quote:
E
-instead of the heal, proccing the e mark on targets will now give Skarner his attack speed buff
-increase total damage, but split it up so that only some is up front and the rest happens when you proc the mark
-reduce mana cost
-look into better usability (faster projectile, faster cast, etc) may be one or all of these
[/quote]

I like the idea of giving it more proc damage (synergies well with his spammy Q), but I still really don't like E by design. Skarner is an incredibly mobile champion, and having to stop to cast his E really stops him from being able to stick very well. It'll be great for jungling where camps dont move, but in a chase stopping for an E hit might well lt the target get off scott free. Instead of a faster projectile, could the cast time be speed up, or even removed? It's a little bit jarring against the rest of his mobile kit right now.


tl;dr:

I like being able to pick when to use an empowered slow, but I'm worried it'll be a null choice (do it or lose serious dps) while ganking due to the insanely spammy nature of his Q coupled with his passive. Sad to see the attack speed go on W, but I'm fine with it if it means more mobility and strength. E getting buffs is cool, but I still really dislike the skill for forcing an otherwise super mobile champion to stand still and lose his ground (and thus advantage) as a core part of his kit. R fixes always cool.