Skarner, I miss your kind

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Mobilized Boat

Member

07-29-2013

Uh, Mr. Scruffy, do you mind answering a quick unrelated question for me?

Do you have the power to change numbers in your own client by yourself or do you have to have engineers do it?


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Roku66

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I used to play skarner a lot season 2. He was my fav jungler. And then when season 3 hit, I was also excited because I thought he would be awesome with the new items (ice borns, any of the 3 jungle items, zepher, etc). A lot of people just shrugged off skarner to being weak now cuz the season 3 changes didn't mesh well with him, but I simply think this is not true.

What really hurt him was his last set of nerfs. Skarner really needs to be able to move speed increase as much as possible due to all these champs having flash like gap closers and other slow kiting abilities such as ice borns and Botrk. Nerfing his w cd made no sense at all.

And the change to his ultimate interaction with an opponent flashing also effected him a lot. Granted something needed to be done, but I don't think it was done properly. It should be that if skarner is in cast range of his r and he clicks r before an opponent clicks flash, the ultimate should go through. And along with this not cause the opponent to flash or have his flash go on cool down. Now it's a win for the opponent for not wasting flash and a win for skarner for getting his ultimate off.


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Kemba

Senior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

I think it usually goes without saying that using Skarner's ult on an enemy carries and pulling them back into your team is the goal (in both competition and fun) for most Skarner players. There's an extreme satisfaction related to doing so when you finally get close to that target.
ALTHOUGH, I personally get more enjoyment out of just sticking on a champion and generally keeping them out of a fight. Skarner has shockingly high early-game damage in sustained encounters. Counterganking and outlasting enemy bruisers brings me great joy.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

I can't express enough how aggravating it is to be forced back to base just because my mana is low. I assume Skarner is meant to be a tanky, disrupting force, but he is actually -just- useless with no mana. No crystal slash means no more damage or slows, no Exoskeleton equates to no escape or chase, and more often than either of the aforementioned, not having access to your Fracture... Actually never mind. Fracture is usually negligible until end of game levels.

So many characters have short jumps that it makes it nearly impossible to stick to anyone. Crystal Slash was advertised on release as an ability that got better if you could land it in succession, but nowadays with modern kits, it's too difficult, and the reward is hardly there.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

The biggest frustration I've run into facing against another Skarner is... That I can't really take it very seriously. I'm being honest here, I love to play as Skarner for the flavor, but in the rare occasion I see one on the enemy team, I just kind of scoff. He's non-threatening for the most part. Counterplay against Skarner is built-in on most champion's kits. (IE: a dash or slow of their own)

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

Usually when I'm riding my train of thought in Champion Select and I think of Skarner, I'm immediately wary of the way that choice will impact the attitudes of my teammates and what they will expect of me in the game, and I often just opt to play someone like Sejuani or Shen instead. All three champions have strong disruption in fights, as well as fantastic peeling, defense and sustained damage (with the exception of Shen).
The only reason to pick Skarner currently (in my eyes) is to get off that clutch Flash-Ult on the enemy carry so your team can pick them off and push to win. But why would you choose Skarner to do that when Nasus exists? Nasus can easily Wither the carry and they won't be able to get away from your team as you go in. Even better, Lissandra can close a gap quicker than Skarner, and her ultimate will lock down the target for just about the same amount of time, as well as doing more damage in an AoE and slowing enemies.

Skarner's kit is just outdated, and everywhere he once excelled, he now pails compared to the utility offered by new champions.

I also want to bring up MANA COSTS again. He can really do work in lane with the sustain from his E, but he runs oom too quickly to actually press any advantage without backing and becoming even again.


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Apygoos

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.
this kinda leads me to say: ther is nothing annoying or pest like to play against a skarner. the fun part about him also makes him pretty useless in the current meta. sure you and dive and suppress an AD or AP carry for them to get nuked but with everyone initiating with a gapcloser/knockup and a ton of CC in the current meta, Skarner cant even make it to the backline, let alone contribute any notable damage that champions like udyr can [udyr can build full tank and still get massive damage out on priority targets, Skarner? not so much]


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messymike

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.
I am 12-4 as Skarner in ranked play. 2 of my losses come from playing him tank jungler (i suck at tank skarner pretty bad, but excel as a mage).
I main him AP top or mid (has worked very well vs ryze and kassadin)
Don't forget about mid lane too, the fact that he is melee with a shield and heal allows him to survive and even counter some champions mid lane. If you go through with removing his heal, his lane is damaged severely.

The only reason I can even take skarner mid lane is because 1. he is melee and gets MR per level, and 2. I can focus on shrugging off alot of poke using shield and E's heal. (until i run out of mana of course!) and eventually use my ultimate for a really strong gank via our jungler. (or pull their over aggressive jungler into the tower)

IMO his CC is the only thing keeping him in the game at all. Nerfing any of his 2 CC abilities is going to require a massive power boost in other places. Otherwise his only purpose (in most teams) will be ruined. He is one of those champions who has a hell of a hard time catching people, but once they do, they stay caught and thats what I love about Skarner the most.


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shamurai7

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey All,
I’m going to be doing some Skarner work and right here is one of the best places to start. There has been a great thread in the Champion Feedback forum (shoutout to Irish Red Cap) with a lot of good discussion on how people are feeling about Skarner’s current state.

So I’ve been doing some digging and unfortunately, poor Skarner is being picked 80% less this year than he was last year. Some of this might be from some nerfs he has received, but it may also be because newer champs are outclassing him in what he does best. Either way, I think we all agree that Skarner could benefit from a few improvements to make him more fun/viable for both Skarner players and their opponents. Keep in mind, the goal here is not "make Skarner OP." There will always have to be strengths and weaknesses to all champions.

Before we get to any of the potential changes, we need to figure out what Skarner’s strengths and weaknesses are right now. I have a few questions for you all, and you can answer these as a SKarner player or even as someone who only has experience playing against Skarner.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

I have my own personal answers to these questions, but I may be only seeing one side of the coin. There are some Skarner players out there with wayyy more experience that I have, and I think there is a lot of valuable information that I may be missing. I have a feeling that once we get talking, we will come to some very useful conclusions. GOGOGO

-Scruff
Wow... I think you are WAY off base with why people are not playing him as much...
his power level was fine...in fact I remember all the qq about how he was OP.

People aren't playing him because he doesn't have an awesome skin. We prefer some awesome eye candy when we play.
Same for other champs that lack a 'defining' skin. Scarner is lacking in personality and not functionality.


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NotSid

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

IMO, his E is the only thing about him that needs to change. MAYBE a little ult nerf revert, but we'll talk about that another time. But yeah, his E is currently useless no matter how you build.


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

07-29-2013

There would be counterplay to skarners permaslow if it functioned as urgot's terror capacitor.


Make it extremely potent, but only available when his shield hasn't been destroyed.


Rather than give his shield a huge value and a long cooldown, make it lower value but spammable like udyr's turtle. That way, one burst of damage doesn't completely gimp your sticking potential in team fights, but it might stop you from being as effective in ganks unless you use your ultimate.


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Lets Go Home

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Hi, I used to main Skarner back in S2 and beginning of S3. I hope this helps.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
The ult. Changing a teamfight around, stopping a crazy AoE comp combo, stuff like that. Makes me feel important and is super rewarding.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
The new ult. His ult losing to flash, I think, is the single worst thing that could have happened to him. Sure, the enemy blew flash, but you also could have blown flash for it. His initiate is entirely reliant on his W and flash, and since his ult has a rather huge failure rate now, it's impossible to land a successful gank. It requires your lane to have blown the flash, which is something that is out of your control. Definitely frustrating and unfun.
Also, his E is simply not an ability in the jungle. It's mostly useless and costs way too much mana, especially for someone as cramped on mana as him.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
The perma-slow. It feels like there isn't anything you can do to stop him from perma-slowing you.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Yes. Any champion that has an initiate with hard CC does a better job than Skarner does. Skarner's ultimate is not stable enough to be reliable.


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ReturnFire

Member

07-29-2013

I play both middle and jungle Skarner.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
As a laner he counters most AP mids simply by shielding and sustaining through burst by going AP and using E as a fantastic sustain. At level 6 you can rush towards your opponent acting as if you were to ult them only to zone them away from last hitting. Using your shield to control damage taken is priority but easily done by watching enemies telegraph movements. Very very dependent on mana regeneration, so blues and proper itemization is necessary.

In the jungle its about the same, but prioritizing movement and attack speed / tankiness in order to proc the passive more and survivability when diving targets for his ultimate. Mana is less of an issue in the jungle while youre ganking but late game it becomes an issue during extended team fights.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Managing mana and knowing that even at 50% mana you may not be able to lock someone down. As well, when ganking enemies with slows or stuns, they'll let you pull them and once the suppression has gone off, they stun you and walk away without being able to catch them.

As well, his ultimate not going off is a major issue and turn off for Skarner, one of the main reasons I stopped playing him. Hearing the sound cue for it and starting to move away really means nothing when many champs can jump away or provide displacement so the ultimate never goes off. Vi's ultimate and Nautilus' ultimate essentially do the same thing at greater range and generally cannot be avoiding through movement abilities.

Recently, many items pretty much replace Skarner's kit and these items are often bought by champs with range or other features that outclass Skarner.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
I can't really pinpoint one singular frustrating aspect of playing against Skarner. What he does, many other champions can do. Permaslows/stuns with Udyr or Ashe or anyone with chilly mitts or frozen mallet.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
I'd say Vi, Udyr and Nautilus provide the same kit that Skarner does, but more towards Vi and Udyr. Vi provides a long range lock down of a target, and just like Skarner, literally throws themself at the enemy team in order to pick off a target. Nautilus' ultimate works in the same manner, picking off a specific target, essentially marking squishier targets for death, but Nautilus lacks counter jungle protection and is easily countered without the ability to make much counterplay.