Skarner, I miss your kind

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messymike

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-Skarner's E ability (Fracture) doesn't feel useful/can be somewhat clunky to use
But please don't nerf it! It is what makes AP Skarner playable! Find a way to include it into a standard Skarners gameplay of course, but please don't alienate the AP skarner fans.
(I am counting on you to keep AP skarner viable since Riot has done it with AP ezreal.)


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scatologic

Member

07-29-2013

Please note all these thoughts apply to jungle skarner, I have no experience with lane skarner
• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Incredible dueling potential, game changing ultimate, easy to learn-difficult to master. I love champs who give a bonus for AA'ing.
• What are the most frustrating/un-fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being kited, only feeling like you have 2 usable spells (excluding ultimate), spamming Q mindlessly till your pinky hurts (hecarim syndrome). Having people flash out of your ultimate. Being classified as a dueling jungler and being able to be out dueled by a lot of junglers early. Lee Sin, J4, Xin ect. Also a minor complaint but after the release of Vi I've always wished that skarners shield and mobility weren't on the same cooldown. The counterpoint to that is that it does create a decent decision making process (burn my shield to catch someone, potentially not catch them immediately but you'll have more survivability when you do). But I feel thats a frustrating decision to make.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Having no escapes but flash vs a perma-slow, that can be viewed as a pick problem but I am under the opinion that your ability to outplay your opponent shouldn't be determined at champ select
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Vi- Reliable better scaling shield for a tank. mobility (dash vs move speed). Spammable AA benefit however Vi's creates an increase in burst damage which is important for ganking followed up by late game scaling percent health damage. Suppression ultimate that cant be flashed out of.

I'm incredibly grateful that riot has seen the value in xelnaths initial transparency of the xerath rework. Not only is it personally enjoyable and insightful to read, but it shows riots dedication to customer satisfaction and their potential to grow even where there aren't monetary gains


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CaptainFlowers

Junior Member

07-29-2013

For me one of the most fun parts about playing skarner is the consistent threat of slow and damage he brings with his Q. He isn't someone like jarvan or xin who uses his abilities for a combo then waits for them again. He exerts the same amount of threat constantly because his Q is always up (provided mana isn't an issue). It gives him a fun feeling of outplaying more combo-based champs and then punishing them while their combos are down.

As I'm sure other people have said, one frustrating aspect about him is the utterly useless feeling of his E. I've played skarner as one of my go-to champs for seasons 2 and 3, and I never put a point in E until I have to. It's just too underwhelming.

The nerf of people being able to pretty much walk out of the ult is also heartbreaking. So many other abilities in the game complete if they begin the animation as someone gets out of range, though I understand it can be frustrating to play against.


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IXBlackStarXI

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Skarner is one of my most favirite jungler.....safe and fast clear and if someone want to counter you, you can destroy him early game. his ganks are good even befor lvl 6 and he do great damage for a tank.


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Recently

Senior Member

07-29-2013

His current kit makes it nearly impossible for skarner to ult a priority target (adc or ap mid)

It either needs a much longer cast range on it, or he needs a significantly better way to gap close.

To me, Vi basically is a similar, but better version of him atm. And shes not exactly in a great spot either.


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Seminole Sun

Senior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being shockingly tanky against people with things like Sunfire and Wit's End
Ulting someone and pulling them under tower
Sticking to a carry and chasing them from the fight (when you can ACTUALLY get to them)

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being kited by Ashe/Ezreal/etc
The really small radius on his Q makes the "perma chase" difficult
Rarely do I feel like Udyr who, given time, will always chase someone down. Generally I feel like, "they have to run from me but they know they'll succeed"

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
I suppose the same thing I enjoy (ult and drag under tower). There are ways around that but probably the single most frustrating aspect has to be that if you're playing a skarner who has his ult up, you CAN'T grab tower aggro because you WILL die after that. But that's kind of like "don't chase the Singed" IMO.

Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
-What are we defining as his job? He's not really the "tanky/initiator" type like a Nautilus or Jarvan. He's probably more like the "zone of terror" guy like Nunu but he lacks Nunu's other tools (large AoE, buffs and debuffs, etc). He's not particularly good as a counter jungler (though he's far from the worst). I see his job as a pseudo peeler (using his ult to pull assassins off the carry) or a pseudo initiator in the mold of Renekton. The kind of person that just walks at the front of his team and pushes the enemies back. He's a little more "swiss army knife" than I think Riot intended, however.

I think his E is probably the best place to do some work. It doesn't feel like it provides sufficient sustain to be really worthwhile but it doesn't exactly do a lot of damage or debuff really. It feels a lot like a filler in a rotation of buttons to press. I also wouldn't mind seeing his Q get a very, very modest range increase (even just 25 would be a big QOL change). Right now it feels like it's smaller than his attack radius (though I suspect they're the same). He's so big and blocky, however, that there's really not a lot of room around him to hit multiple champions.

I love his flavor and his kit in general... Tweak his E to make it interesting and see if that alone is sufficient change (moving the heal to better shield on W would be fine too).


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ReturnFire

Member

07-29-2013

I don't get the problem with permaslow on Q. Mana issues pretty much control this.

Might as well change Ashe too if that's the problem. It really only is a problem early game when ganking lanes is prominent. When grouping occurs permaslow is pretty irrelevant.


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Sckrt

Junior Member

07-29-2013

My favorite champ though I barely play him anymore.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Pulling people. Its fun as hell and has a huge impact on a fight. Its basically the one and only thing that makes skarner fun.
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Flash into the enemy team to pull someone only to have my ult get interrupted multiple times as everyone tumbles, pounces or simply walking into a bush and just generally get kitted all day. All his abilities are kinda lackluster. His Q is alright but with frozen fist in the game lots of champs can do the same thing and be better in other areas. W is really weak imho. The as and ms buffs are great but the shield is broken so easily just by random aoe dmg that its usually just a tiny bit of damage mitigation on a long cd. E is whatever, the low damage and heal is usually inconsequential late game. Overall all his abilities just want to be mashed as soon as they come up and all do nothing significant. His mana cost are too high as well. longer fights put you on empty in no time. Jungling or ganking without blue is miserable.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Obviously getting pulled can suck but so does eating a nidalee spear or getting jarvan ulted or thresh pulled.
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Most junglers have more mobility, sustain and reliable CC. Jarvan or elise comes to mind.


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Hyjacked

Junior Member

07-29-2013

One of the greatest pleasures I get from playing Skarner is the "predator" feeling: Basically the feeling that I have a target in mind, and whether or not it's tough to get to them, once I have them in my clutches, they're mine. I love this feeling on Skarner (and to a lesser extent other predator champs like Rengar and Warwick). I'm all for making him a better pick competitively by making him less kiteable, and also for making him more fair and less permaslowy once he catches you, but I don't want to lose that feeling of confidence once I have someone trapped.


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Khristophoros

The Council

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.
This is why it's difficult to imagine significant trade offs such as putting holes in his permaslow pattern not resulting in an overall nerf.

Also personally I feel that other things you could put on his kit to make up for losing the permaslow would ultimately hurt his core identity. Things like a gap closer, ranged CC/slow, or some kind of gimmick/mechanic to make engaging easier. Skarner's identity is a character who has to use basic movement to position himself and is only a threat in melee range.