Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Soul of Infirc

Senior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
His passive is intuitive and allows you to be playing rather than sitting away waiting for cds
He's a pretty good dueler when he has items and there aren't minions around
Grabbing an enemy key player into the nemy team is also neat
also i'll drop this here, Not my video, credit where it's due
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab-q0jqbDH8 it's a little outdated since it's a s2 vid with items that are no longe rlike before but it highligghts the fun part of skarner.
What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Running OOm for everything, not being a very viable laner despite being a good dueler later because his early game is really bad and getting gold starved in the jungle isn't fun at all when you are fairly item dependant, his E range is also a very cluunky ability thanks to tis short range and you not having any kind of gap closer aside from your W
Minions can block your route since you ahve no gap closers this leads to very frustrating escapesfrom your enemies,
SO he needs Items but ther'es no particular way he can reliable get gold, he loses a lot of lanes so he can'tt farm and jungle starves him because he doesn't have enough Mana to clear it.
What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Nothing really...he's just there...
Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why
Lee sin, but prett ymuch that's because Lee sin has inherent kit problems, in that no matter what you do to lee sin he's a guy that basically can work without items while gold starved and behind in experience and still do his job of ganking people and feeding lanes and throwing a key enemy player into your team (which is what skarner does best) then jumping to safety, technically Lee sin only needs boots to triumph.


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Drummuh Dude

Senior Member

07-29-2013

What if, instead of changing the entire way his E works, you kept the core concept intact: that is, it does damage at a (small) distance and Skarner can proc it to heal himself. Make it so that, if Skarner procs his E on a target while his W is active, the heal is instead added to the health of the shield? If this was the case, Skarner would be able to engage better by using his E on a line of minions, turning his W on, then Q-ing the minions as he goes past to strengthen his shield.

If Skarner procs the mark from his E while his shield is down, it would heal him, just as it does now. This would help make his E much more relevant, while keeping the heal that top-lane Skarner likes in order to sustain through poke.


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Your Shadow

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
His voice work is cool, his whole theme is cool and his speed is just awesome. Hitting your shield and running someone down at 430+ move speed and then ulting them as you shrug off the damage from their team is what makes Skarner worth playing.

He's reasonably strong too, even when built tank. He doesn't deal super high damage, but it's enough to feel relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
His vulnerability to being kited. Yeah he's fast, but there's so much CC and disengage nowadays, plus the nerf to his ult, that unless you take the enemy completely by surprise, you will NOT get close to them.

Another problem are his pre-6 ganks. He needs to be in melee to apply his slow, and if he doesn't have boots, it's fairly simple to get away before he can do anything. He can't gank very well unless his target is really overextended and has no escape.

And there's the whole, "Only 3 abilities thing". I mean yeah, he's super fun with just those three, but still, it'd be nice for him to have a complete kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Honestly I haven't played against Skarner enough to say. But I'd assume it's that once he gets in melee range, unless you have some kind of escape you will NOT get away as long as he has mana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
As an AoE clear, fast moving initation tank? ...I'm not really sure. Maybe Maokai, since he has Twisted Advance AND a more range + interrupt on his slow.

And Mundo can certainly permaslow and kite just as well, if not better than Skarner, though he doesn't have as much initiation power.

Nautilus has better ganks, but he doesn't have Skarner's raw speed. Though a Shurelya's fixes that no problem.

But most notably, all of those three have some kind of ranged ability. Skarner's only ranged attack, Fracture, is pitifully weak and doesn't mesh with his kit.


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Mid Is A Feeder

Senior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why

1. Grabbing, counter jungling, speed, his general look and such, permaslow, good damage while being tanky (but not to much damage)
2. PEOPLE GETTING OUT YOUR ULT! wish QSS or whatever, it just cheeses it. QSS should make it so your still getting dragged, but can do actions. MAYBE. Preferably NO WAY to get out of it, hows it fair skarner has to go right up and catch someone to initiate while malphite can just flash > unstoppable force > knockup, or even just skip the flash?
3. If your playing a really weak jungle then he'll walk all over you (eg fizz jungle you'll get walked over.) I dont really find skarner frustrating to play against, when he does what a lot of other counter junglers do. There really isnt a lot to find frustrating, maybe apart from his synergy with iceborn gauntlet? (pls dunt nerf, its the only thing he has for him right now to make him strong :/)
4. Oh boy. I love skarner, look at my name, but if you want intitiation that cant be flashed or cheesed out of look at malphite or any other tanky intiator , also, lux, get caught by 1 binding and she has a slow. SHes kind of like skarner but from afar, since his pull really doesnt pull THAT far.


Other notes:
Buff his duration of his ult, increase the range by a tiny fraction, stop the flash/tumble out of his ult cheese, make his E more useful.
I play skarner now and again, a friend request so i can discuss further with you would be great :d


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Ajax Oilid

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakingoog View Post
• what are the most fun aspects of playing skarner?

-Ulting people into your team or for a kill

-using Q to slow down a fleeing enemy/team helping your team to secure kills

-surprising people with your speed from your shield

-being able to get your ult back quickly by farming a bit



• what are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing skarner?

-Extremely mana hungry early game to the point if you dont get blue the other team doesn't need to counter jungle you because you have to B after every camp until you hit ~6 or 7

-Nearly impossible to gank pre 6

-you can't flash while ult is active (If you ult a carry to save a teammate being chased from taking tons of damage the other team can just CC you and you end up dying for trying to save a teammate since you dont have much of an escape. Would also make people think run under tower and flash out or flash under and run out instead of just always having to flash in and run out. Just more variety.)

-E is completely useless because it costs so much mana. Damage and heal are nonexistent if you dont build AP. (most people i've seen build AD cause the spammable Q that scales off AD is his main thing other than his ult. People also dont build AP because the shield is used for speed boost not the shield and E is just kind of there.)

-The damage on his Ult is useless and should be put elsewhere. No one builds AP so the initial damage is unnoticeable and mid-late game when you ult your team focuses the target and normally kills them before the second round of damage even takes effect. I mained skarner for 3 months and I think I had 1 kill with his ult. I'd just rebalance it so his Ult is just hard CC and his other abilities are stronger damage (maybe make E more noticeable)

-People can just Flash/shift/jump out of your ult extremely easily. Ult flashing is just a good way to blow your ult now skarner went from being a tanky initiator to a tanky grab the carry in the team fight while he's trying to kite your team and let you're team eat him alive. Making it easier to flash away just made him into more of a one trick pony when your facing anyone other than people who dont have the summoner spell flash.

-Q slow should proc on first hit not second.

-Hes a close range fighter but for his shield and E to even be useful you cant build AD making him really have 2/4 skills and a speed boost

-Shield speed boost should last full 6 seconds instead of going away when shield breaks.


• what are the most frustrating aspects of playing against skarner?

-never actually played against a skarner o.o



• are there champions that do skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

-Vi godly ganks decent clear

-Shy decent ganks godly clear

-Udyr decent ganks no competition on clear speed

-Elise insane ganks insane clear

-Skarner pre ult nerf godly ganks decent clear

-Skarner post ult nerf pre 6 non existant ganks decent clear

-skarner post ult nerf post 6 decent ganks decent clear

-Basically theres people that tank better, theres people that gank better, theres people that clear better, there are tons of better initiators. Skarner isn't terrible he isnt even all that bad hes just kind of average at everything. Pre ult nerf he was really good at ganks and had a good clear the problem is his clear got nerfed and his ganks got destroyed. Also since it became easy to dodge his ult he became a poor initiator as well.

To sum it all up on what I think about skarner

-He's not terrible but he's not great either

-Nerfing his ult took him from being a great ganker good initiator and great team fight carry lockdown and made him into a below average ganker that is great at locking down a carry/snowballing champ in a teamfight for your team to target.

-People play him AD but his abilities are only good if you build AP.

-He has decent burst if you build AP but people are gonna build him Tanky, Lifesteal, AA, ability spam (especially because his passive makes spamming abilities easier upon auto attacking) over Tanky, Decent burst if you manage to land a skill shot and if your ult target lives long enough to be hit by all the damage.
That's it!
1. Q should proc at 1st to be able to have any presence before 6 (and after would be rly good) - just play with slow duration or %.
2. Shield should be bigger or not losing movespeed/attackspeed or give only movespeed.
3. Skills shouldnt be that messed up. You should build tankiness to use shield's speeds, but you can lose it or not do much of use of it. You should build cd to make his spells kinda usable. You should build attack speed with all mentioned before to be able to use shield and q and e.
How can anyone possibly buy that many items in one game? + that's not giving you the best late game, its just good. + you are a jungler with no gold + you always have such big mana and ganking problems to get any gold from ganks. That's messed up.


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Waschbar

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I think you should remove the MS boost from his W and give it something else that fits the crystal theme instead, and then give him a vlad-pool-esque type burrowing ability on his E.


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Purpleiswin

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I don't play skarner too much, only free weeks, but as a solution to the perma slow problem, have the slow as a side cooldown on the ability, lets say his new Q would be something like this

30/35/40/45/50% slow decaying over 3 seconds
Procs on first cast of Q, begins a mini cooldown for the slow that starts at 8 seconds that auto attacks reduce the cooldown on that by 1 second.

At 1.0 attack speed, he can get 3 autos off during that slow, bringing the slow down to 2 seconds, if he can get one more auto off with them running at full speed the slow will be refreshed.

The numbers could be adjusted, considering he gets free attack speed in his kit, maybe balence the timing around 1.5 AS or so, giving the enemy at least 1-2 seconds of full mobility, but allows him to proc the slow right away in ganks, as opposed to having to prime it. The cooldown on Q itself is seperate from the slow, so he can also throw in extra damage without the slow.


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KnightOwl

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey All,
I’m going to be doing some Skarner work and right here is one of the best places to start. There has been a great thread in the Champion Feedback forum (shoutout to Irish Red Cap) with a lot of good discussion on how people are feeling about Skarner’s current state.

So I’ve been doing some digging and unfortunately, poor Skarner is being picked 80% less this year than he was last year. Some of this might be from some nerfs he has received, but it may also be because newer champs are outclassing him in what he does best. Either way, I think we all agree that Skarner could benefit from a few improvements to make him more fun/viable for both Skarner players and their opponents. Keep in mind, the goal here is not "make Skarner OP." There will always have to be strengths and weaknesses to all champions.

Before we get to any of the potential changes, we need to figure out what Skarner’s strengths and weaknesses are right now. I have a few questions for you all, and you can answer these as a SKarner player or even as someone who only has experience playing against Skarner.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

I have my own personal answers to these questions, but I may be only seeing one side of the coin. There are some Skarner players out there with wayyy more experience that I have, and I think there is a lot of valuable information that I may be missing. I have a feeling that once we get talking, we will come to some very useful conclusions. GOGOGO

-Scruff
I told my friend who goes by Vejoviis on league about this thread, expect a post from him.

He pretty much only comes onto the forums to talk about skarner, he played like 75% of his S2 games on skarner, this title was ironic because whenever he doesn't feel like playing he normally just says "not now.. I miss my kind"

in short he surmises most of skarners problems come from the fact that his Q+W are so good on their own that his ability to ult people who flashed made him altogether too broken, and that his R needs to be returned to some version of what it used to be since as good as his Q+W are he can't do what he's meant to at all without being able to ult carries since the blink changes.

Skarner just needs to be given an E that fits into his natural role, have his Q and W normalized, and restore his R to at least near its previous glory

I think the problem is almost all his E.. its like ryze, ryze used to have a wayyy too powerful Q+W and his E was really inconsequential. Riot fixed this by changing all three skills to make them all more balanced which allowed his kit strong without any one part being too strong.. Skarner needs his Q+W to be tweaked so that they still let him do the same thing, but not to an extent that is broken.. Giving balance room to give him an E that somehow fits his role (which is to overcommit to a fight in hopes of being rewarded with a high priority target). It is important to remember that while QWE need to be normalized his R also needs to allow him to fulfill that role, because in its current state the gambit of going into the enemy team is too weighted, if someone uses any sort of mobility skill it is quite easy to make the skarner simply.. commit suicide, for nothing

EDIT: it should be noted that when I say his Q+W is too powerful I am also including his passive in here, as it is his passive that allows him to have 100% up time on W when sticking to someone which means the attack speed buff is allowing him to Q a little bit too often given the strength of Q


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Joebeezer

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Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
I love the feel of Skarner. I love the scurrying along while perma-slowing opponents. The Bread and Butter of his kit is definitely his ult. But I also love dueling as him.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Skarner's E is lackluster to say the least. It has mediocre damage and sustain.
His mana costs are taxing even with blue buff.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
His ult.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Hecarim, Rammus, Volibear, and Singed currently do a better job at being Skarner than Skarner does.

Hecarim can perma slow better than Skarner can once a Iceborn Gauntlet is purchased. Rammus is faster and locks down "marksmen" and other priority targets better than Skarner while doing more burst damage. Volibear and Singed have an unavoidable Skarner ult as a normal ability.

I honestly feel that if the cast time on Skarner's ult was shortened and the duration time was slightly less it would curtail the frustration on both sides.

Skarner's E could use some damage or sustain buffs, but not both. Just make it useful because many Skarner players do not level his E until level 13.

A slight lowering of mana costs or a lowered cooldown on his W would go a long way as well. Thank you for reading


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TTGOz

Senior Member