Skarner, I miss your kind

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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I'm happy that Skarner has finally been acknowledged as unjustly Evelynned but I'm really skeptical about these new changes, without seeing numbers it feels mostly like a hefty nerf with nothing coming back in return.

Skarner fell out of favor thanks to two major factors, the biggest being that the Season 3 jungle shifted away from aoe farming support tanks. The other major factor was the ultimate change that combined with the ever increasing mobility creep on new champions made it basically impossible to ult a skilled opponent. Reverting the Ult change would be the biggest move possible to get Skarner played again, he still wouldn't show up in competitive play but at least he'd get played again because he'd have 4 skills again. To get anything better than that is going to take a major kit rework to Skarner (please no), a shift of the jungle meta back to farm heavy tanks, or a Riot wide war on mobility.

A good example for what you're in for working on Skarner would probably be Shyvana. She's been getting a lot of changes the last few patches, and while her usability has improved, she's still no where near a competitive play worthy jungler because those kinds of junglers are just not able to hold up against the current popular picks.

Skarner certainly needs love but outside the ultimate nerf revert there's not much that can be done to truly help him without a heavy kit overhaul or the sort of massive game-wide balance shifts that accompany a Season change and that will benefit Shyvana and Mundo just as much as Skarner.


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Ajax Oilid

Senior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
His laugh, his looking, great ult, being able to tank and to do some aoe.
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Very mana starving even though his skills arent that good to make tons of impact. Combo of No burst + weak slow makes him kind of weak vs any good players. Ult casting time makes it avoidable in many cases. Considering no real presence before 6 and the fact that wards make him unable to gank at all he can be easily counterjungled and gogt absolutely denied.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
;D not many ppl play him and he doesnt seem to be a threat (boring unless enemy is much better player)


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AiZhiD

Junior Member

07-29-2013

Removing skarner's sticking power will make him even more unplayable. This is the only trait that skarner has and is good for.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

07-29-2013
9 of 35 Riot Posts

Another thing to keep in mind, Skarner has very low play rate and sub 50% win rate right now. There is no intention of nerfing him.


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Doubt this post will be read but...

I played skarner jungle a bunch S2. I am glad you are looking toward making his E more useful, but I honestly think that the ability (shoot a projectile of magic??) doesn't fit in well with either skarners play style OR his theme.

So what you try to do when you play skarner (regardless of the proposed change to his perma slow) is stick to your target, constantly moving and attack as they retreat. Throwing a crappy range skill shot in the mix is only ends up slowing SKARNER down as he clumsily has to aim at a champion he is basically on top of. I think you should consider change the proc style of the ability.


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Manigliométro

Member

07-29-2013

First problem, already know: Permaslow on Q.
Suggested solutions: give it only on the first Q (you charge it out of combat or over time, reduced by autos to keep the mechanic of his passive); or lower the value and make it stack, like GP passive (you can fight me or run, if you fight me be sure to kill me or you won't be able to escape).
The first option is pretty simple, the second one removes his gank potential (beside ulti of course) so it would fit a major rework.

Second problem, again pretty popular: his E is worthless beside laning Skarner.
BUT
Major and third problem, where my opinion is a bit different: I hate his ultimate.
Why?
It is so good that you had to remove all the power from its skillset in order to balance it.
Why going top with Skarner if my ultimate is so powerful when I'm grouped with my other fellas?
Possible solutions: either you keep his ultimate and completely change his E not to be worthless in this incarnation of one trick pony Skarner (his kit already makes sense so a passive would be fine) sacrificing his ability to lane (which as we said is pointless because his fighting capabilities are subpar) or remove that darn ultimate.
I know this would be unpopular, but would open the gates to a new Skarner, both fun to play as and fun to play against.
This choice was already pointed out by another designer: would we rather have the scorpion that catch the prey in the sand or the one that battles and is hard to knock out? I like the second option.

Random ideas:
-New E: sting a champion with your tail debuffing/poisoning/slowing them, maybe stacks, maybe has a passive (like lifesteal or spellvamp or both or life gained on "action" to let him lane).
-New R: Skarner jumps (or channels then jumps, or tunnels) at target location and creates a crystal zone (or a sandstorm) where enemies are slowed/damaged (on cast or over time) and/or its abilities are empowered (Q regains permaslow, W move speed debuff doesn't fade out, E stuns, no mana costs for everything, anything else), maybe zone grows over time.

Hope it helps


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PositiveAffxtion

Recruiter

07-29-2013

the good things about skarner are permaslow at lvl 1 and flash ults.

Problems are the E using a lot of mana so it is better to stick with other skills and that without flash, his ult is very tough to get off without getting kited. Also i rarely use his E but i usually miss it cause it is a weird skillshot.

Playing against skarner, if you are the adc you must buy qss asap. This isn't too much of a problem when playing as him because you still have others to grab and it takes away 1550g from the adc


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Saituchiha

Junior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Perm slow, unique ult, natural tankiness and mobility.


• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Little to no champion damage. Clear is garbage now. No gap closer or jump-like ability.


• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Perm slow and MUST invest in QSS


• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Why play skarner when you can play elise...or zac....etc.


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Yung Musta

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Getting off ults that shutdown an important enemy is the best part about skarner
The fact that you dont have an E untill lvl 14 or when ever you need to put a point into is is unfun because the spell is not usefull so its better to lvl the other spells


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messymike

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey All,

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

-Scruff
Skarner lover here, he is my favorite jungler. With that being said, I rarely play him in the jungle anymore. I play him mid or top lane as AP, and as such, I beg that you do not nerf AP skarner as there are more of us than you think.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
The most fun aspect for me is usually when I am AP, I enjoy his W and E combo actually giving him some reasonable staying power in the lane, hes actually pretty durable with some AP. I enjoy being able to trap an enemy with my slows and ultimate so that if it is indeed a winnable battle, they cannot run easily without flash or cc. His passive is one of my favorites in the entire game.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Mana costs, low single target damage. These weigh especially heavy on jungle skarner, enemy junglers can cruise without blue, skarner starts to suffer without it. Skarner can clear aoe camps easily but struggles on bigger camps and usually ends up consuming too much mana in order to kill them in a timely manner. Also, the movement speed breaking with the shield, it makes it too difficult to get an ultimate out without flash, and even if you did get to the enemy somehow, they flash out of it anyway.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

There aren't many anymore now that hes been nerfed too hard and the S3 changes have kicked in. In the jungle I rarely feel he is a threat, simply because in order to use his only redeeming ability, he has to build tank and movespeed or use flash.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
I would say so, you can make a list of junglers and throw a dart at it, 9/10 times I'd say you'd end up with someone better than him. He is a tank that does not have much natural tankiness, and his only gap closer is a puny speed boost that breaks easily. His stats are too weak for a melee only champion, his range is so low on all of his abilities that he really does need a speed increase or defensive stat increase. He was a god in the pre S3 jungle, where AoE mattered, but now single target damage outshines is SO MUCH that he has fallen out of the picture.

Honestly, Skarner is one of my favorite champions of all time. I main him in lane and have a freaking blast doing so. His problems are that of many other melee champions, their stats simply are not good enough to make up for their lack of range.

My suggestions: Increase movement speed by 5.
Slightly increase base mana and mana per level.
Reduce or remove scaling mana cost on Q (it was meant to be spammed!!!)
Shield retains 50% of its movespeed boost upon breaking.
Give E an AD ratio on the damage and reduce the mana cost so that jungle skarner has a reason to take it.