Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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encyclopedea

Senior Member

01-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldmanj View Post
any updates on skarner? and would it be possible scruffy to put where his kit is at on the OP?

In all honesty... i am gonna miss the current skarner now that I figured out where he fits in the game again, for those that dont know he is an awesome top lane champ.

I am going to sorely miss his ability to heal, for the longest time i felt it was a useless joke until i started playing around with it by lvling it first... now i love it to death. Kinda wish it could be kept around in some way.

It would really be awesome to get on the pbe and really grind a bunch of games with his reworked kit and see if he can still handle the top lane. sadly I have no such access

Edit: I just thought of a very important question... with the attack speed buff moving to q will it stack even if you dont hit anything? because if not that is gonna really hurt Skarners split push and tower taking ability.

It doesn't stack if you don't hit anything. I tested the rework long enough to determine the fact that I didn't like it, no matter what build I used, then stopped. The rework isn't on PBE right now anyway.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

01-14-2014

So, new patch... no new skarner. Not that Im upset or anything, but Im still wondering when this change is supposed to take place...?


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Aloretec

Senior Member

01-14-2014

If fracture still has a cast animation this nerf disguised as a rework sucks. Putting his slow on a skill shot that you have to stop to cast is flat stupid.

Width of it prolly needs increased to 100 from 90. Just an imo without testing it myself, but looking at other skill shots are about that width.

I'm still with the other guy trying to figure out why someone being punished for a melee champion with a weak speed buff getting to them is bad gameplay...


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Skarquesa

Junior Member

01-15-2014

I'm really against the current rework but we'll see. If Skarner's play rate goes down even more I wonder how riot will respond to it.
(Hoping they bring back the original Skarner that we all know and love)


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encyclopedea

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Now that patch 3.14 is out, Skarner is coming back to the PBE for some real in game testing!

Crystal Slash
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 5s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8
-Slow removed from Crystal Slash (moved to Fracture)

Exoskeleton
-Attack speed component removed
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 24/28/32/36/40 and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 80/135/190/245/300
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Heal removed
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90

Impale
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start

Once the next PBE update hits, let's get some real testing and see how this kit plays.

This was already bad enough. The values now on PBE are worse than this.

Q- No mana fix (which according to RiotScruffy, is a core part of the rework).
W- Cooldown at 16 seconds instead of the 14 that was promised (and according to RiotScruffy, is a core part of the rework).
R- NO CHANGE

I am done. Riot, if you keep this up I'm going to DOTA 2, and my computer can't even run that. Get your act together and stop this idiocy.


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Sightless66

Senior Member

01-15-2014

So, I just loaded up the PBE, and I noticed that the PBE version of Skarner is significantly weaker than the previous iteration. The new kit has these values (taken from Reign of Gaming, but they appear accurate to the current PBE version).

Crystal Slash [ Q ] - If a unit is struck Skarner now also gains % attack speed for 5 seconds,stacking up to 3 times.
Crystal Slash [ Q ] - No longer slows
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - Skarner is now shielded for 80/135/190/245/300 damage (up from 70/115/160/205/250)
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - The damage Skarner is shielded for now scales with 0.8*AP (up from 0.6*AP)
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - While the shield persists, Skarner gains 20/24/28/32/36 % increased Movement Speed (Up from 15/17/19/21/23%)
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - The increased MS ramps up over 3 seconds
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - No longer grants Attack Speed
Crystalline Exoskeleton [ W ] - Cooldown is now 16 seconds (down from 18 seconds)
Fracture [ E ] - Now slows enemies hit by 30/35/40/45/50% for 2.5 seconds
Fracture [ E ] - Removed from tooltip: "Striking enemies will consume the mark to heal Skarner for 30/45/60/75/90 (+0.3*AP).Killing targets outright will also activate the heal.(Each activation heals for 50 % less.)"
Fracture [ E ] - Now costs 40/45/50/55/60 Mana (down from 50/55/60/65/70)
Fracture [ E ] - Range is now 980 (up from 760)
Fracture [ E ] - Cooldown is now 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds)

There are a few things that I have to take note of here. First, the mana buffs given to Skarner are now only present on his E, and he has only had a reduction of 10 instead of 20. Secondly, the shield CD has only been reduced to 16 instead of 14, and the movement speed has been reduced by 4%. Third, the Fracture has had its range reduced by 40 (although the width may be 120 instead of 90 now), and the cooldown has been increased by 4 seconds. Finally, there isn't anything indicating that the ultimate has received the QoL buffs it desperately needs (although this may still be in the kit and just not shown in the tooltip).

What exactly is going on? Why is the reworked kit being nerfed? By nerfing the movement speed and CD of the shield as well as the CD on his slow, you are breaking the already decreased slowing power that Skarner had. Sure, you're giving him more damage in a straight 1v1 fight, but you are significantly decreasing his potential to finish those fights down by chasing enemies down. We may be getting a permanent steroid and slightly better mobility, but it is coming at the cost of a huge amount of CC, a reasonable amount of tankiness, and a greatly increased level dependency, while also not fixing his core mana problem.

Looking at this kit, I don't really see what exactly you are trying to make Skarner into. What exactly is your vision for Skarner right now? Are you seeing him as a low-cc tanky carry, similar to Shyvana or Mundo? Are you trying to make him a tanky disruptor? Are you trying to make him an early-game duelist? I ask because I don't think this new kit proposed does any of these roles satisfactorily. It just looks underpowered.

Riot, I think it is worth reminding you here that many Skarner players did not want a rework when we were complaining about Skarner. We wanted a buff. We only wanted the scorpion to get a bit stronger. I personally was willing to take a rework if it filled the goal of getting stronger (although I know that many don't agree with me on that). Right now though, it looks like I'm losing the kit I like, but without getting the power boost that made me want the change in the first place.

Can we get some words about what exactly is going on at the moment? Are you guys intending to release him underpowered and then mess with it more later? Are you still trying to figure out the balance, and if so, what led to the conclusion that the rework needed to be nerfed from where it was?


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Karede

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightless66 View Post

There are a few things that I have to take note of here. First, the mana buffs given to Skarner are now only present on his E, and he has only had a reduction of 10 instead of 20. Secondly, the shield CD has only been reduced to 16 instead of 14, and the movement speed has been reduced by 4%. Third, the Fracture has had its range reduced by 40 (although the width may be 120 instead of 90 now), and the cooldown has been increased by 4 seconds. Finally, there isn't anything indicating that the ultimate has received the QoL buffs it desperately needs (although this may still be in the kit and just not shown in the tooltip.
This is unbelievable to me. Thank you for bringing this to light on the forum. They have taken a very weak champ and literally pulled the legs off of it.

I'm glad I have abandoned Skarner as my main in preparation for this nerf/dismantling. Now when they change him at least I can be competitive with something else, because I certainly won't be able to with my favorite champion anymore.


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ryotredwe212

Junior Member

01-15-2014

Please don't rework him. I love everything about him. Just buff his mana a bit, some damage and also reduce the mana costs. His W's attack speed addition is a great component that works together with the passive, the speed boost is also helpful a lot for ganks, running, or ulting others that are running. His E's heal and damage are ok, I hope that you could buff the heal a bit though. I believe that his E costs too much mana. His Q's is great, I don't think you need to work on the Q much at all.


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Dr Cat

Senior Member

01-15-2014

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ID:	878643 "PARTY ON SUMMONERS RIFT! Is everyone here?"

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ID:	878644 "Well its about time. I got the drinks!"

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ID:	878652 *glug glug* "Wayyyy ahead of you."

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ID:	878645 "Jinx PLZ... Don't make me hurt you."

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ID:	878658 "The gangs all here.. but wait, what is that gem...thing that is moving closer?"

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ID:	878658 "Its.... its...."

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ID:	878660 "Outrageous?"

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ID:	878645 "Taric PLZ"

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ID:	878658 "But wait, there's something else hiding in the shadows.."

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ID:	878640 "..Hey guys..Can I join you?"

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ID:	878652 "IT SPEAKS?!"

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ID:	878658 "Go away loser, no one likes you"

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Name:	SkarnerSquare.png
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ID:	878640 "B..but I could jungle for you?"

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Name:	RenektonSquare.png
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ID:	878658 "We have Vi, or Gragas, or Lee, or pretty much any champion that's not you who can jungle for us."

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Name:	SkarnerSquare.png
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ID:	878640 "Can I top or.. I'll even support if you want."

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ID:	878660 ... >.>

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Name:	RenektonSquare.png
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ID:	878658 "I don't even... I can't even remember what you do.. Are you AP or AD?"

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ID:	878640 "Um, AD? No wait..Well, I can move people with my ult!"

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ID:	878653 "ORLY?"

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Name:	RenektonSquare.png
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ID:	878658 "If they wanted to spam q in team-fights they would have picked Yasuo. If they wanted a hybrid bruiser they would have picked Jax.

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ID:	878658If they wanted CC or utility they would have picked lee, or Rammus, or Zac. If they wanted Gems: Taric. A bug: Elise.

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ID:	878658Pretty much everyone can play you better than you. You're useless."

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ID:	878664 ..... ...



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ID:	878643 ... Okay well, PARTY MOVING TO BARONS! Everyone is invited except for.. that thing!"

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ID:	878666 "Even me!?"

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ID:	878643 "Hell yea Laser-Chains!"

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ID:	878666 "Sweet!"




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Name:	SkarCry.png
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ID:	878664 "... I'm so lonely.."

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ID:	878668 "You'll get used to it"


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Sightless66

Senior Member

01-16-2014

In case anyone missed it, there was a post on the PBE community site detailing the current values of Skarner's rework on the PBE. Anything not mentioned in this post is unchanged. Given that these values come directly from Riot, we should use these values when discussing the changes instead of the earlier posts that came from datamining.

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Q

-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 5s that stacks up to 3 times for 8/10/12/14/16%

-Slow removed from Q (moved to E)

W

-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 16s

-Attack speed component removed

-Max movepseed increased to 20/24/28/32/36 and ramps up over 3s

-Duration remains at 6s

-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 80/135/190/245/300

-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

E

-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 40/45/50/55/60

-Cooldown increased from 10s to 14s

-Heal removed

-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s

-Missile range increased 800->1000

-Missile width reduced 120->60

-Missile speed lowered 1800->1600

R

-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation

-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start
I will be testing this kit more on the PBE later today and tomorrow. Anyone else who has PBE access should also test the new values out and give feedback. If any changes are made to the values and detailed in that post, I will post the changes.