Skarner, I miss your kind

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Karede

Senior Member

11-06-2013

I main Skarner and have been dismayed at the changes.

Everything about Skarner is built around his Q permanently slowing his target. Without the perma-slow, breaking his shield will basically render him completely unable to chase down his target.

Also, if people are saying they are maxing E first, that will take away from most of his dueling ability in the jungle, right?

I main Skarner, I've played him over 1000 games. I have a 60+% win ratio with him. If I had the choice between either the new or the current skarner, I would absolutely beg on my knees to keep him the same and not take away the perma-slow.

Taking away his perma-slow is like taking away shaco's ability to go invisible, and making his boxes not invisible. It takes away waaaaaaaay too much of what makes him good at what he does.

Please do not do this. Pretty please do not do this. My entire game is based on Skarner, and taking away his best skill can't be the only idea on the table.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A2ZOMG View Post
What more hurt Skarner was the nerf to his shield, which make it considerably more difficult to clear the jungle with reasonable health. Again, the PRIMARY reason Skarner is not viable right now is because his jungle clear is not safe enough. Red start is super risky for him due to mana costs, and his health sustain early is poor. These are problems that are resolved with both the new Q and W, so ultimately that alone makes the rework a buff by actually making Skarner more usable in the jungle.

The main thing Skarner loses out on slightly in his rework is ganking honestly, and it's not like it's even all bad news. Yeah, not having a permaslow makes his ganking less destructive, but having a long ranged slow means you can now initiate ganks from more positions. So his ganking is weaker yes, but it's more applicable.
Everything in this quote is wrong except the last paragraph.

Skarner in current form clears the jungle like a beast, I play him every time I get to play jungle. Taking up to 3 buffs from level 1 with machete and 5 potions still leaves me with 90%+ health and usually an extra potion. Usually the reason I go back to buy isn't a health problem, it's mana

I agree in theory with the last paragraph, since I haven't played the new skarner.

The major negative of his shield getting nerfed wasn't his jungle clear safety... It was the transition from being able to use the shield twice a fight reliably to usually only once.

The same thing happened with xin's gap closer when they nerfed it. He went from being able to initiate with it AND close later in the fight to having to pick when he wanted to use it the one time.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-06-2013

Nobody has commented yet that exoskeleton's movement speed is only active WHILE THE SHIELD IS STILL ACTIVE, which means if you take off 75 damage on skarner before level 8, he no longer has ANY movement speed buff at all.. The reason this wasn't obvious before is that he had a permaslow, so his movement speed wasn't as crucial once the q was locked in.

Anybody who has played Nautalis understands the frustration of having your shield popped quickly in a fight... Sure, Nautalis can do quite a bit of damage with that shield active, but it gets popped so fast it's an extremely unreliable source of damage.

If they want to buff his W, they need to make the movement speed increase happen no matter if the shield gets popped or not. Otherwise, this champ is gonna get kited by everything.


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España is hot

Junior Member

11-06-2013

hi. First of all i must ask to take care with changes, and don't make a "new skarner" for those players who don`t like the present skarner, sure you know what i mean. Please don't change skarner, if you want to make rework all you must do is solving skarner useless points or extrem nerfs from past, no one will ask for an op champ, just make him competitive choice, but keeping as much as posible if it works ok and funny now..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Are there champions that do Skarners job better than he does? Why?

I have my own personal answers to these questions, but I may be only seeing one side of the coin. There are some Skarner players out there with wayyy more experience that I have, and I think there is a lot of valuable information that I may be missing. I have a feeling that once we get talking, we will come to some very useful conclusions. GOGOGO

-Scruff
I played a lot skarner last year in my main account, and skarner Q, W an E are funny and useful nowadays. Sure there are situations where those habilities are not the answer, but they, the 3 habilities, give him a lot of utility.

Skarner problem: R. Her ultimate is useless!! i mean, in competitive play. Sure it can make fun on newbies and with a lot of luck can give you some advantege or maybe help to kill...
but this R:
-has really low range
-has really low duration
-In lanes phase, it is useless since with so low range, mel range in fact, no enemy will let you pick him under your tower, or if you try to pick him under the enemy tower you will be hitted by enemy's tower harder than any damage you can do to your target.

My point is: all skarner need is a buf in her/his/its R: a bigger range maybe or better more time of efect in target.

Sorry writing mistakes.

About your questions:

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Skarner's Q: spamming her Q is esential for pushing lanes, also W is perfect now, atack speed is needed when hitting towers, so please dont delete that. And shield in W let him buy ofensive tems what is also esential to have fun with him.
The 2 ways of building skarner: AP or AD, and specially the chance to build him as hibrid AP/AD is really funny too.
What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner? useless R. All champs, or almost, have R habilities useful for 1v1 or lanes play. Skarner's ultimate (also doing really low damage) seems to be useful only for starting team fights, and if having a lot of coordination with team members.... and also only if skarner is tanky, if played as AD or AP fighter then is really useless too. When i compare his R with all champs with a similar hability all do not only better, they have tons of more utility in their R: blitzcrank, Malzahar, Volibear, Urgot, Thresh...

So i ask 2 ways: or buffing Skarner R to make it stop beeing a joke compared to all thoses R.
Or changing skarner R to a new and completely diferent R, keeping Q, W, and E as they are today.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
I suppose the movility when W is high leveled, with moviment speed tems it must be frustrating trying to chase him.
Are there champions that do Skarners job better than he does? Why?
Sure, first all champions with far away better supresing/taking habilities, usually Rs: blitzcrank, Malzahar, Urgot, Thresh. Also Singed and volibear have habilities which do better job than skarner R.
Second, as fighter in hibrid build those with jumps and better movility: jax for example. If jungling, again champs with any kind of jumps: jax, xin zhao, jarvan iv, aatrox, amumu, Tryndamere.

I like specially playing skarner in top, and there he can do as good as anyone, just with the diference that skarner useless R make him having only 3 habilities in fact, when he will be fighting vs champions with 4 habilities.. in that point we can say all champs do better, as all have 4, i dont know any other champ with not only a useles hability, in skarner is an useless ultimate!!


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Karede

Senior Member

11-06-2013

I just went 8-2-20 in my only ranked game with him tonight. Most of my early work got done because of permaslow.

My team was about even, then I caught renekton in a permaslow when he was out of position (a tanky target). Me and vayne got him down before his two buddies got there, at which point we bent them over with an ult and permaslow. Snowballed the rest of the game. Got baron. Ladies were cheering. I got laid.

Take away permaslow, I lose that game. My team was losing straight up team fights.

I don't care what the hell else you give me on Skarner. I need two things. His q permanantly slowing people and doing some damage in a long fight, and I need his ultimate at least as good as it is now. His shield works fine as it is. You wanna buff it? Fine, but keep my permaslow. I would trade everything else for those two skills and his passive.

Please, for the love of God, don't ruin the only champion I like to play in this game by taking away what makes him good.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Is this a dead topic? Is there no way to rescue this character?

This is honestly the only character I truly enjoy playing anymore. If they manage to ruin him, even while he's one of the least played champions in the game, I think I'm done.

I can't stand playing the same champions 80% of the player base plays. Lee Sin, Vi, Jarvin... Freakin boring. It's a snoozefest to have the same champions picked every game.

Please do not change the only character I enjoy playing in this way, RiotScruffy. I am in the top 1% of people who enjoy Skarner. I won't claim that I'm the only one who exclusively uses him in the jungle, but I have been using him since his release and only plan on making a change if these changes are implemented.

Not in my wildest, most horrifying nightmares did it occur to me to check the forums to make sure that a champion only played 1.8% of the time would have his BEST SKILL destroyed.

Riotscruffy: you are taking away everything that makes this champion different and seperate from all the other champions. His toolset revolves around permaslow being on Q. People build him with the mindset of permaslow. His cooldowns are based on permaslow keeping people close enough to hit them over and over again. His damage is modified so that him permaslowing isn't broken: if I only get to hit people as often as most other champions, Skarner having no burst will make him worthless.

Please. I would trade his shield and his E in and have only 2 skills and a passive rather than get rid of the permaslow. Everything else is related to Skarner, but not a defining character trait that MUST be present for the character to keep his niche.


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Armdys

Junior Member

11-07-2013

So I played Skarner for the first time this week, and I'm in love with him. But he needs that permaslow. I've learned that quickly, without it, he's virtually useless. Of course he's fast, but without that slow, he probably won't get enough damage alone to kill them (unless building damage, AP or AD.)

What I've enjoyed is that permaslow, the speed boost and of course the drag. Vi has good damage and is decently tough, but Skarner is a nice beef stick, not only capable of dishing the damage, but receiving it and taking it, while sticking to the target. Vi's problem is that she can't stick like Skarner, but instead has better ganks. I'm going from my favorite Jung at this moment and comparing. Both of these differences is what gives these champs their uniqueness, which is why I say Skarner's set shouldn't be changed too much, he takes more skill to get a good gank in. One thing though, is that his ult is wait too short. In range at least, like I have to be on top of them to grab them.


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Cybernetic Ghost

Senior Member

11-07-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

I like his design and his skins. The best part is his ult.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

He gets so little health back from his one ability and his autoattack does so little damage for how short the range is. He has terrible survivability in team fights because he has to get in close to really dish out any damage, unless by some miracle he gets fed and destroys your team by himself (saw it a few weeks ago).

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

Playing against Skarner? He's pretty much a cockroach with pincers/stinger. You can step on him a dozen times and he won't die. Then there's that pesky tail of his...

Are there champions that do Skarners job better than he does? Why?

Yes. Fiddlesticks has better health recovery (the best, really, as a jungler). Jax has the attack speed boost. Volibear has health and that OP passive. It's hard to say...Skarner is just weird.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Been playing skarner a lot lately. Would it be so bad to just fox his management costs and maybe in crease the range on his e? Maybe beef his ultimate a little bit? Or his AP ratio and cooldown for shield?


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Fetalol

Senior Member

11-08-2013

I bought Skarner a few days ago and he almost instantly became my new favorite champion. I don't know if it's too late for this, but I wouldn't change anything core about his kit. I think that Crystal Slash is really his defining ability, not Impale. The most fun part of playing him is using his sustained damage combined with the permaslow. He just wouldn't be Skarner without it.