Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KSHarrison

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimiron View Post
The idiocy of "tru Skarner fans" on this thread is saddening. Scruffy already answered of course but constant attack speed is better than hardly any attack speed.

Riot clearly knows more about champion balance than you guys, Scruffy loves Skarner, he's not going to do all this work to nerf a champion.

Lane Skarner is like lane Hecarim. It's fun in normals. You're not going to climb the ranked ladder very far with it though. You can still play lane Skarner, but: Stop asking them to balance a champion around something you guys do for sh*ts and giggles.

As Skarner is literally my favorite jungler in the game and Earthrune is my favorite skin in the game, I'm extremely excited for the changes. I really want to be able to play Skarner in ranked without feeling like I'm gimping myself. I feel that this is going in the right direction, I'm very excited about his Q, although I feel his E should be considered for maybe a 2 second CD reduction to keep his ganks strong enough to matter pre-six.
You're on GD, home of overly worried players with no credible design experience who base their critical analysis on mostly speculation, and each one tries harder than the last to get his opinion noticed by being rude and/or sensationalist. Their passion is admirable; your attempt to reason with it is a nice change up, though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeput View Post
The fact of the matter isn't whether or not people own the right to the champions but that fact of people who have spent either time(farming ip) or real life money in order to get a champion that was set up one way specifically for it's kit just to have it's kit changed into something that would force you to stop playing it. Not stop playing the champ because you aren't skilled with it or don't enjoy it, but because it was changed to a play style that is different from your intended purchase meaning a waste of your time or money.

It doesn't matter.


You accept the terms that you don't own the right to the champ and, for better or worst, you accepted for Riot to make any changes they want.


You are not entitle to a refund because "you don't like it" and you can't even take this to court cause you pretty much a contract saying that they can do this and they own you nothing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Joker9125

Member

08-28-2013

I apologize if this has already been addressed, but this thread is over 190 pages long. And even though I seriously doubt a red will reply to this but I do have one issue with Skarners kit. His ultimate isn't worthy of being called an ultimate.

Lets compare it to blitz rocket grab (this is coming from the rework page on the wiki)

Impale Range: 350 CD 130/120/110 Cost 100/125/150

"Active: Skarner rears his stinger, immobilizing his target with fear for ~0.25 seconds as he bring his stinger down: dealing magic damage and suppressing them for 1.75 seconds. For the duration, Skarner can move freely and will drag his victim around with him. At the end of the suppression, the target takes the same damage again.

If Skarner loses sight of his target or if his target exceeds a range threshold, the ability is canceled but does not go on cooldown.
"

Total damage: 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 100% AP)

Rocket Grab Range: 925 CD 20/19/18/17/16 Cost 120

"Active: Blitzcrank extends his right hand in a line. If it encounters an enemy, they are pulled to his location, dealing magic damage and stunning them for 1 second.

Projectile speed: 1800
"

Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 100% AP)

While I understand that comparing two champions is normally like comparing apples to pineapples I think there is a logical case to be made here. They both have a 1:1 AP ratio similar base damages, however one skill vastly overshadows the other even though they share a similar function

Blitzcrank's Q has a similar supression time, can be used with much less risk, lower mana cost, can be used to steal jungle buffs, and is spammable. I have no problems with the state of of Blitzcranks rocket grab. My issue is that no other champion I can think of has an ultimate that is so vastly overshadowed by another champions basic skill.

Impale would be fine replacing Skarners E with something like a 30 second cooldown

I would suggest moving the slow back to Q, Give W a passive 15-25% AS buff and an active movespeed/shield that persists while the shield is active, Impale replaces E with a much shorter CD, and his ultimate could be something useful like this.

Scorpions Rage (or insert cooler sounding name)

ACTIVE: Skarner gains XX movespeed for 3 seconds and dashes to target enemy knocking aside all enemies in his path. Enemies displaced by his ultimate are slowed by XX% for 1 second.

Again.... I want to reiterate that the issue is that the power of his ultimate does not justify the risk involved with using it. And the penalty for a mistake is extremely high. Be it death or it simply not being available the next time you need to use it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sightless66

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker9125 View Post
I apologize if this has already been addressed, but this thread is over 190 pages long. And even though I seriously doubt a red will reply to this but I do have one issue with Skarners kit. His ultimate isn't worthy of being called an ultimate.

Lets compare it to blitz rocket grab (this is coming from the rework page on the wiki)

Impale Range: 350 CD 130/120/110 Cost 100/125/150

"Active: Skarner rears his stinger, immobilizing his target with fear for ~0.25 seconds as he bring his stinger down: dealing magic damage and suppressing them for 1.75 seconds. For the duration, Skarner can move freely and will drag his victim around with him. At the end of the suppression, the target takes the same damage again.

If Skarner loses sight of his target or if his target exceeds a range threshold, the ability is canceled but does not go on cooldown.
"

Total damage: 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 100% AP)

Rocket Grab Range: 925 CD 20/19/18/17/16 Cost 120

"Active: Blitzcrank extends his right hand in a line. If it encounters an enemy, they are pulled to his location, dealing magic damage and stunning them for 1 second.

Projectile speed: 1800
"

Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 100% AP)

While I understand that comparing two champions is normally like comparing apples to pineapples I think there is a logical case to be made here. They both have a 1:1 AP ratio similar base damages, however one skill vastly overshadows the other even though they share a similar function

Blitzcrank's Q has a similar supression time, can be used with much less risk, lower mana cost, can be used to steal jungle buffs, and is spammable. I have no problems with the state of of Blitzcranks rocket grab. My issue is that no other champion I can think of has an ultimate that is so vastly overshadowed by another champions basic skill.

Impale would be fine replacing Skarners E with something like a 30 second cooldown

I would suggest moving the slow back to Q, Give W a passive 15-25% AS buff and an active movespeed/shield that persists while the shield is active, Impale replaces E with a much shorter CD, and his ultimate could be something useful like this.

Scorpions Rage (or insert cooler sounding name)

ACTIVE: Skarner gains XX movespeed for 3 seconds and dashes to target enemy knocking aside all enemies in his path. Enemies displaced by his ultimate are slowed by XX% for 1 second.

Again.... I want to reiterate that the issue is that the power of his ultimate does not justify the risk involved with using it. And the penalty for a mistake is extremely high. Be it death or it simply not being available the next time you need to use it.
As you mentioned, this isn't really a fair comparison. In order to compare Skarner to Blitzcrank, you need to compare their kits. Blitzcrank has a hook that is better than Skarner's impale, but he has almost nothing else; some burst, and virtually no sustained damage. In a sustained fight, Skarner is far, far superior. You can't compare the skills alone, you have to compare everything else they are attached to.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IamNotaJoker777

Senior Member

08-28-2013

with the new triforce buff, skarner should be good right now. The only reason noone picks him is noone realises how much damage he can do while being tanky.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ShadowHowl

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-28-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Able to speed through the battle field and grab people from jungle.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
He does do enough dmg and is more sought out to be a tanky jungle. Also very mana dependent.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
High escape and cheap pulls from ult when one tries to escape using either an ability or summoner spell.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Blitzcrank because he pulls all day long and able to disable heroes better.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

messymike

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-28-2013

AP skarner is fine, works good just isn't popular.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Joker9125

Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightless66 View Post
As you mentioned, this isn't really a fair comparison. In order to compare Skarner to Blitzcrank, you need to compare their kits. Blitzcrank has a hook that is better than Skarner's impale, but he has almost nothing else; some burst, and virtually no sustained damage. In a sustained fight, Skarner is far, far superior. You can't compare the skills alone, you have to compare everything else they are attached to.

While you are correct that their kits are different; The point I was making was that they both share a role of forcing an enemy team member out of position and initiating team-fights. The high level of risk involved for skarner to use impale is in no way justified by the power of the skill.

Skarner has to run through a line of tanks while getting shut down by CC for 1 shot of moving a target a short distance with a pretty brutal cooldown.

There is an extremely high level of risk involved for skarner in doing so. While blitz can do this from a distance in relative saftey, with a more forgiving margin of error.

And even accounting for the differences in their kits. Can you think of any other champion ultimate that is completely overshadowed by another champions basic ability? Really..... I'm actually asking......... I'm racking my brain and cant think of 1 other single example.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sightless66

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker9125 View Post
While you are correct that their kits are different; The point I was making was that they both share a role of forcing an enemy team member out of position and initiating team-fights. The high level of risk involved for skarner to use impale is in no way justified by the power of the skill.

Skarner has to run through a line of tanks while getting shut down by CC for 1 shot of moving a target a short distance with a pretty brutal cooldown.

There is an extremely high level of risk involved for skarner in doing so. While blitz can do this from a distance in relative saftey, with a more forgiving margin of error.

And even accounting for the differences in their kits. Can you think of any other champion ultimate that is completely overshadowed by another champions basic ability? Really..... I'm actually asking......... I'm racking my brain and cant think of 1 other single example.
The thing you aren't noting is that Skarner fills other roles. Blitz doesn't. Blitz is only good at catching people out. He sucks at virtually everything else. Skarner has very high sustained fighting power, and he has pretty decent peel (particularly against assassins, where his targeted ultimate is far superior to Blitzcrank's unreliable hook). Blitz has neither.

"Skarner has to run through a line of tanks while getting shut down by CC for 1 shot of moving a target a short distance with a pretty brutal cooldown."

If that's how you're using Skarner's ultimate, I think you may have picked the wrong champion. You're trying to initiate on enemies who are reacting to you. That's one of Skarner's big weaknesses. He's not meant to do that. Skarner is not supposed to initiate fights unless the enemies get significantly out of position.

So, yes, Blitzcrank will be better at grabbing people and initiating fights because that's all he does. Skarner has different roles. His ultimate gives him utility for those roles. It does the job.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Joker9125

Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightless66 View Post
If that's how you're using Skarner's ultimate, I think you may have picked the wrong champion. You're trying to initiate on enemies who are reacting to you. That's one of Skarner's big weaknesses. He's not meant to do that. Skarner is not supposed to initiate fights unless the enemies get significantly out of position.
Tell that to literally every team I play with when I jungle Skarner......... No really.... Do that; I'm serious.

And its STILL an extremely lackluster skill as an ultimate.