Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Justaco

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGatsby View Post
The only things I would like to add to this thread are: change his movement animation as his movement speed increases to make him look like he is going faster. As it is now, he feels slow (to me), even at 550 ish move speed. The other thing would be a small lurch forward as he casts his ult (like Udyr bear stance).
Not sure how you expect them to change it, beside I like his little feet scuttling along.


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
I have an idea to make this a bit more unique/useful. It may admittedly make it a bit OP but hear me out:

What if the E, as well as doing what you mentioned in this post, also marked the targets as it originally did. Only when you proc the mark with damage it inflicts Terror onto the enemies (terror as opposed to fear, making them run from you).

This would introduce some interesting decisions:
-If you proc the mark while they are slowed but you are behind them it essentially keeps them running away but they are unable to use abilities, which can be very useful
-If you try to get in front of them taking advantage of the slow/W's speed boost then you can get them running toward your teammates.

The 2nd is obviously preferable but sometimes the enemy has good escapes (such as trist/ez/corky) and you won't be able to run in front of them. If you can get the terror off however atleast your team will have some time to do some damage before they can use their escape, hopefully landing you the kill.

This would make it a very good ganking ability. It might be a little OP so other things might need to be tweaked.

What does everyone think?


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Best Glitches NA

Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, back with some more details. We're trying out an iteration of the E that is a bit more like the old E in usage but there are some other changes that help it fit nicely into his new gameplay pattern.

-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s

The goals here were to retain the fun and diverse gameplay of the line nuke. The free targeting and skillshot feel of the E is a nice change of pace from Skarner's other melee focused abilities. We're also trying a longer/slow/less wide projectile so that targets of the E have the opportunity to dodge it (counterplay).
Max rank it slows just as much as nami ult, granted not as wide and far, but essentially *only* a ranged slow.

Just a couple questions:

Would a "ziggs style" particle scatter on E (breaks when it hits enemies, etc) be problematic or tedious in coding for a Skarner rework?

Why scrap possible iterations that included on-hit mechanics? It was an idea that fit his kit nicely (possibly coupled with my previous line nuke slow, priming his next attack)

Do you feel satisfied with the latest E being similar to zac Q and Aatrox E? Because I mean there was an awesome opportunity to make it very different from other slow mechanics, but instead just kind of slapped a bandaid on it and called it a "viable ganking tool" with little variance.

My $0.02


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Locke64

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kira x Fallen View Post
He just doesn't feel like he is able to do his job if the enemy builds a heavy frontline. He's just not able to get through to his prime targets- the carries when you got things like amumu shen malphite in your way.
I will take this opportunity to again bring up the idea of E being similar to Draven's Stand Aside. It'd fill the same need as the the burrowing gap closers others are suggesting, without being too OP or requiring significant animation rework.


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke64 View Post
I will take this opportunity to again bring up the idea of E being similar to Draven's Stand Aside. It'd fill the same need as the the burrowing gap closers others are suggesting, without being too OP or requiring significant animation rework.
I suggested (a couple posts above this one) that the E slow like scruffy is trying out now, but also mark the targets hit. Then when you do damage to them it consumes the mark inflicting Terror onto them. This would help skarner get pasts the front line as well.


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Best Glitches NA

Member

08-14-2013

I truly don't believe Skarner's primary function is to nab the adc (albeit a damn good play though) but I would consider him among choices like Dr. Mundo, where you can fight your way to the adc or protect your own with a kit that both produces difficult circumstances for the enemies as well as producing so much noise they can't possibly leave you alone to continue your rampage.

Too many requests to improve his "initiation" isn't what he needs to be viable, he just needs disruption that separates him from other choices. Skarner has the potential kit to ward off problematic bruisers from bruising your adc while also able to exploit the positioning of enemy players, but this wasn't capitalized. Ah well.


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Dalthine

Junior Member

08-14-2013

I'm not sure if this has been said before, but I want to put this out there anyway. Thinking about the new kit, there are some aspects of it that definitely bug me. (...No pun intended.)

@RiotScruffy, I appreciate that you're trying to bring Skarner back, but I urge you to look at his kit in its current iteration and think about how it compares to kits that already exist. Namely, Zac. Zac's kit is arguably much the same thing as the current iteration of Skarner, and better in many ways. See below for direct comparisons:

Skarner's Crystal Slash (Q) = Zac's Unstable Matter (W)
Area damage, and Zac's scales with AP while Skarner's is AD. While it's good that Skarner can build AD to benefit from both the damage and the attackspeed, the rest of his kit is AP and therefore doesn't benefit from the AD aspect. If he goes full tank, Zac will do more damage overall due to %HP as its damage. Further, autoattack oriented champions, at least melee ones, don't seem to be doing too well in the game at present overall.

Skarner's Crystalline Exoskeleton (W) = Zac's Elastic Slingshot (E)
Skarner gets a movespeed boost and a shield, which while is admittedly good, doesn't actually help him engage on squishies a great deal. Regardless of the movespeed boost, he is still going to have to run at them and is therefore vulnerable to slows, kiting, and the target just dashing away. Zac is meanwhile able to leap on the enemy from outside of visual range, be on top of them before they can react, and immediately apply hard CC when he hits.

Skarner's Fracture (E) = Zac's Stretching Strike (Q)
Line slow. Zac's is still much wider than even Skarner's original width of his strike, and isn't much shorter in range. The slow on Zac's isn't as powerful as what you're proposing, but I don't see that as a huge difference in the end.

Again, I'm not saying this to try to put you down, but you need to look at some way to make Skarner comparable to the newer champs that do his job better, and unique in his own way. Even with all of the changes you're proposing, it still feels like the ult is the only thing to pick Skarner for, and he's still just as vulnerable to kiting in that aspect as ever, especially when almost all of the squishies being played have some form of escape mechanism.

Like I said though, I appreciate what you're doing in trying to bring older champs back and bring them up to snuff, and I hope this helps your thought process. I'm looking forward to being able to see Skarner again, as I'm always a fan of the more monstrous champions.

TL;DR: Zac is a better Skarner than this current Skarner.


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wapster

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Is there still a casting time on his E?

If so, remove it.


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Lord of Sharks

Senior Member

08-14-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
His ult by far. Using your shield, rushing in to the enemy team, and grabbing their carry is so much fun.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
I would say there are 2 things. First of all, his E is pretty much useless. It has terrible range, does nearly no damage, and the heal proc is negligible. Secondly, while the increased movement speed from his shield is nice, he doesn't have any good gap closing ability. The enemy team can cc you before you can catch the carry.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
The only thing Skarner has going for him is that Ult. It is terrifying.

Are there champions that do Skarnerís job better than he does? Why?
Skarner is mostly used as a tanky jungler, who's entire purpose is to rush in, grab the carry, and run out. The problem is, he is simply outclassed by nearly every other tanky jungler in the game. J4 has a better gap closer and is tankier. Nautilus and Sejuani are the king and queen of CC. Zac is amazing in teamfights with his tankiness and cc. It just seems that there is no point picking Skarnr because everyone is better


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kitcat300

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalthine View Post
I'm not sure if this has been said before, but I want to put this out there anyway. Thinking about the new kit, there are some aspects of it that definitely bug me. (...No pun intended.)

@RiotScruffy, I appreciate that you're trying to bring Skarner back, but I urge you to look at his kit in its current iteration and think about how it compares to kits that already exist. Namely, Zac. Zac's kit is arguably much the same thing as the current iteration of Skarner, and better in many ways. See below for direct comparisons:

Skarner's Crystal Slash (Q) = Zac's Unstable Matter (W)
Area damage, and Zac's scales with AP while Skarner's is AD. While it's good that Skarner can build AD to benefit from both the damage and the attackspeed, the rest of his kit is AP and therefore doesn't benefit from the AD aspect. If he goes full tank, Zac will do more damage overall due to %HP as its damage. Further, autoattack oriented champions, at least melee ones, don't seem to be doing too well in the game at present overall.

Skarner's Crystalline Exoskeleton (W) = Zac's Elastic Slingshot (E)
Skarner gets a movespeed boost and a shield, which while is admittedly good, doesn't actually help him engage on squishies a great deal. Regardless of the movespeed boost, he is still going to have to run at them and is therefore vulnerable to slows, kiting, and the target just dashing away. Zac is meanwhile able to leap on the enemy from outside of visual range, be on top of them before they can react, and immediately apply hard CC when he hits.

Skarner's Fracture (E) = Zac's Stretching Strike (Q)
Line slow. Zac's is still much wider than even Skarner's original width of his strike, and isn't much shorter in range. The slow on Zac's isn't as powerful as what you're proposing, but I don't see that as a huge difference in the end.

Again, I'm not saying this to try to put you down, but you need to look at some way to make Skarner comparable to the newer champs that do his job better, and unique in his own way. Even with all of the changes you're proposing, it still feels like the ult is the only thing to pick Skarner for, and he's still just as vulnerable to kiting in that aspect as ever, especially when almost all of the squishies being played have some form of escape mechanism.

Like I said though, I appreciate what you're doing in trying to bring older champs back and bring them up to snuff, and I hope this helps your thought process. I'm looking forward to being able to see Skarner again, as I'm always a fan of the more monstrous champions.

TL;DR: Zac is a better Skarner than this current Skarner.
That......is a lot of similarities that I didn"t consider.