Skarner, I miss your kind

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Tananzel

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Member

08-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakamaru View Post
Just to be clear, since I'm not about to run through every page.

Is his Q permaslow (when charged) being removed, or is it still intact? For me, that was one of the most satisfying parts of playing Skarner, once he's on you, you are not getting away.
Sadly his Q will no longer slow targets, instead it will provide an AS buff (So bonus CD from passive too). The slow is being moved to his E and it is getting a full ability rework. The slow will be harder to get on the target and will have small gaps in up time but to help balance this out his W is getting a shorter CD and a larger MS increase.

All in all it will be a change at first and will take some time to get down. But with Iceborn Gauntlets being near spamable on Skarner and the bonus MS I feel that he will still be fairly sticky and hard to get away from.

I would also like to hear from RiotScruffy again to see his thoughts on the change, it has been very silent for awhile now.


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ItsPronouncedJif

Member

08-03-2013

I'm just trying to make sure this gets seen, i thought pretty long and hard about this, so here goes.

I had a couple ideas while at work and i'm really hoping you take a little time and look at them, because I feel like it fixes the existing dilemmas in a pretty cool way. My idea would be to change Skarner's Q to be something like what it currently is,and also say something like "...and apply an X% slow, decaying over X seconds. This cannot be triggered on a target more than once every 12 seconds unless that target is inflicted with Crystal Poison."
Then, change Skarners E to be as you have suggested, an auto attack resetter that does damage to enemies behind the target, much like Vi's E, but with a twist. Make the E also have a passive something like:
"Basic attacks increase Skarner's attack speed by X%, up to a cap (5 stacks). Upon reaching maximum stacks, the target is inflicted with Crystal Poison."
This would leave room for counterplay: 5 aa's (even with the reset from Skarners new E) is a good amount of time to do something, but it fits perfectly with Skarners current theme of prolonged fighting and relentless pursuit of prey.


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JoltikEX

Junior Member

08-04-2013

Hey scruff, Im really happy that riot takes a look on skarner after the ridicolous nerfs.
Im a diamond1 EUNE jungler and i hope that my opinion will help you with the changes. xD


IMO Skarners biggest weakness ATM is the fact that he cannot "dodge" wards as efficiently as the other t1/1.5 junglers - j4 has his EQ/seju has her Q/zac jump etc, the only T1 jungler that isnt able to is nautilus which atm is a stronger version of skarner just because of the cc pack that he has.
If you would rework his e to be the mostly suggested burrow skill, it would make him t1/1.5 atleast (I wouldnt add any cc to it though, that would make him too much xD)
I dislike the changes that you are doing ATM, mostly the Q change (it makes Skanrer that what he is), you are turning him into a Shyvana with harder lv6 gangs/harder engage.
The ways of changing him that I would suggest are :

1. Adding that really weak gapcloser that is able to dodge the wards onto his E.

2. Giving him ridicolous clear/counterjungle with weaker skirmishes so he can hit the lv6 gang power fast, that would completely change his kit though - I feel like this is the way you are trying, I hope that u will try both of the other options that I suggested because his q would have to be changed - nobody likes that xD)

3. Just buffing the ratios, (w cd/ nerfing e stats and giving it 0/very low manacost) giving him higher base ms which would mean that if you get through a ward you will be able hurt the lane a lot. - This change would also make laneskar ppl happy IMO xD

Just please, keep the q the way it is, I am not sure that if you would give it that meh AS buff that it would help him and his lovely midgame fights where he aoe slows, with the slow on the e it would nerf his teamfights a lot because if its going to be a AA on hit, its hard to position it so its effective.

Also it seems that I am the only one that thinks the ult is ok the way it is, already got used to playing with it I guess xD
English isnt my first language, but I hope that you will understand my point.

EDIT
I got some thumb ups here,so Id love you to react to it, Im intersted in your opinion on it

EDIT2
So i started playing some games at my main with him, espicialy against the new glass cannon yi and poke comps, he does wonders against that. But the thing i want to point out, his ulti is like 50/50 when a ezreal arcane shifts (2 times out of 4, I was able to get him), I got all the nidalees in their jumps (2/2) and i got a graves once in the middle of his e - IDK if it was the same after nerf or if it got changed. (I feel like after nerf it was worse)


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oldRakdos

Senior Member

08-04-2013

one of the few things i hope that scruffy leave alone is the hybrid damage of his Q


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Remni Strath

Junior Member

08-04-2013

A burrow on Skarner's E that slows everything above him as he travels underground would be a great idea for the rework on it. Also gives him more utility overall and a larger asset to teamfights.


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Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tananzel View Post
Sadly his Q will no longer slow targets, instead it will provide an AS buff (So bonus CD from passive too). The slow is being moved to his E and it is getting a full ability rework. The slow will be harder to get on the target and will have small gaps in up time but to help balance this out his W is getting a shorter CD and a larger MS increase.

All in all it will be a change at first and will take some time to get down. But with Iceborn Gauntlets being near spamable on Skarner and the bonus MS I feel that he will still be fairly sticky and hard to get away from.

I would also like to hear from RiotScruffy again to see his thoughts on the change, it has been very silent for awhile now.
You speak like it's a done deal. There are a lot of Skarner players that are upset with the changes that Scruffy is suggesting and they have been vocal on the thread. I just hope that Riot takes those comments to hard and doesn't rampage down the "total rework is the only solution" bandwagon. Because Skarner doesn't need a total rework like he is suggesting, he just needs a little something more in order to be on par with the more recent junglers.


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Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightless66 View Post
"Let's assume there is no other tank or initiator on your team. You've got standard ADC + support bot, AP mid and somebody like Zed or Yi top and you are at the teamfight stage of the game. Suppose the enemy team has Ashe, Kha'zix, Leona, Karthus and any top you like. Do you just wait for somebody else to initiate then grab a juicy target? Do you build full slow resistance? (Swiftness + Zephyr) Do you wait for Flash/Ghost and try anyway? Do you wait for the enemy team to initiate then try to make a play during the ensuing chaos?"

In the situation you described, you have a few options. First, you can wait for the AP or Support to catch someone out if they have the CC to do so. Secondly, you can flash grab someone if they are out of position. Third (and this one is probably the best idea), you can split up the team and go to different objectives so they are forced to fight you in smaller units where you can use your high skirmish potential to its fullest while minimizing their aoe potential. Finally, if you absoultely must fight as a team and your team has no good initiation cc, you are going to be relegated to trying to absorb their initiation and then get onto someone important (peel or go for carries, situation demanding). (Also, if that's the case, then you guys really just have a poor team composition, and Skarner was not a wise pick. You're slightly picked into a corner. He's not hard initiation, and the enemy team has some direct Skarner counters (Karthus in particular, and Leona isn't fun either). Picking a hard initiator or stronger CC would have been a better idea.)
I love this response. Upvoted for sure.


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Dizeazedkiller

Junior Member

08-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikohoness View Post
Again, I appreciate your time in writing down your opinions. Just consider a couple of things:
1) I don't think Skarner's E can pass through walls. At least I've never seen it happen. Maybe it's because of the limited range. If E can't pass through walls then there it no reason to think that an E-based gap closer would do so.
- I agree that passing through walls would be too much.
2) If the range was nerfed to 400 (to encourage close-range melee combat) it wouldn't be much of a gap closer, but I see your point.
3) I'm pretty sure that Skarner's kit was designed back when every new champion didn't have a gap-closer or ranged slow.
4) If a gap-closer isn't on the table, then I think he needs a way to avoid getting permaslowed from range.

But let me change this discussion to a question: What do you do when you are playing Skarner and the enemy team hits you constantly with slows? Let's assume there is no other tank or initiator on your team. You've got standard ADC + support bot, AP mid and somebody like Zed or Yi top and you are at the teamfight stage of the game. Suppose the enemy team has Ashe, Kha'zix, Leona, Karthus and any top you like. Do you just wait for somebody else to initiate then grab a juicy target? Do you build full slow resistance? (Swiftness + Zephyr) Do you wait for Flash/Ghost and try anyway? Do you wait for the enemy team to initiate then try to make a play during the ensuing chaos?

I'm curious because there are a lot of people who stopped playing Skarner since S3 started, and I really don't think the reason they stopped playing him has anything to do with attack speed steroid, permaslow or any of the other things that Riot's rework are targeting.
Just because he can no longer press R to win doesn't mean he isn't viable in some situations. As in he is now a situational pick and that's good. What's happening right now is Riot is reducing the individuality and uniqueness of a champ to horseshoe him into the meta. That's not how this should be done.


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VenIM

Junior Member

08-05-2013

I like how skarner sounds with the Q and E reworks. The ranged E slow, sounds like it will improve his ganks, and the Q change will help his clear time.

With rushing Iceborne after the jungle item will give skarner some serious spike.

Also I saw someone say that skarners R has no counter, but if you wait to cc skarner until after he uses R skarner can't move a teammate very far. And then he's just a tank with slows.

Skarner will still be a bit UP, with only a slow as CC when his ult is down. He won't be picked much in the pros. Maybe if his E could at least disrupt channels on the first enemy it hits?

And finally, I would like some info on Skarners W, what's happening with it? Changes or no?


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Protonhunter

Senior Member

08-05-2013

Can you give us an update on his R?