Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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alvrav

Junior Member

07-30-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
- Being able to pull the carry from the other team
What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
-Your abilities do little damage but have low cooldowns and that allows champions taht are able to escape to receive little damage
What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
- His ulti, but that defines him as a different champion
Are there champions that do Skarnerís job better than he does? Why?
- I guess that junglers with an ulti that gives them cc ( j4, sejuani, nautilus) can do the job of disrupting the enemys carry and they also have a stronger jungle clear


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Sightless66

Senior Member

07-30-2013

I don't think I like this new iteration of Q+E. There seems like a lot of potential problems here. I don't see how exactly Skarner is supposed to stick to his targets with this E change. Having a strong slow that lasts only a short time isn't useful to Skarner. Slowing them down quicker doesn't matter if you aren't able to actually keep up with them afterwards. The only time this is valuable at all is if you have an ally significantly out of range to do anything, but anytime you're alone or with an ally in proper position, the fact that you have less slowing potential over time is going to severely harm your potential to get kills. If your shield is ever broken by an enemy, you are going to have no potential to chase them down even if you were in melee range. That's not great.

Also, I think this will significantly hurt his teamfight presence. Current Skarner brings the ability to peel for his carries by applying permaslow and keeping enemy frontlines off of them. Is a somewhat more powerful slow that isn't permanent and doesn't have the same aoe is going to allow for anywhere near the same utility? Unlikely.

Finally, how is this going to affect his post-6 ganking, particularly on tanky targets? Current Skarner's method of ganking post-6 is to grab his target, pull them back, and then permaslow indefinitely. A stronger slow may prevent them from going as far right after he finishes suppressing them, but they will eventually be more free to escape than they currently are.

This change does not sound good. It doesn't sound like it will increase Skarner's power, it doesn't sound like it will make Skarner more fun, and it sounds like it it going to result in a significant decrease to his CC potential.

What exactly is the line of reasoning behind this change? Is permaslow thought to be a negative aspect of Skarner's kit? How do you envision him staying in range of his enemies without it? If he can't, do you think there is a reason this won't be necessary on this iteration of his kit?

Oh, and as a final note: having it be an autoattack reset is fine. Having it not be an autoattack reset is also fine. Changes there are somewhat... unnecessary. It seems like it would be generally stronger as a skillshot than as an autoattack reset, but the use case for him as a jungler will remain mostly the same. It's probably a significant nerf to lane Skarner though. Can't take a ranged ability and force it to be cast from hitting a minion without losing some power.


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JustAGhost

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Could you maybe tweak Impale as well? Considering it's relatively short range, long cooldown, even with his passive, and Skarner's inability to reliably reach casting range I feel like it should have a greater impact than it does now. I'd be happy to see most/all of the damage dropped if it meant a longer duration, or possibly some sort of bonus to your speed, anything to give Skarner more ability to reposition his opponents. Maybe something like "Upon activation, any movement speed bonuses applied to Skarner are doubled for X seconds.", though that already sounds a little broken, but it could be as low a duration as half a second, just something to give Skarner a little boost after successfully activating the ability. Or maybe instead drop the damage and shave 10-30 seconds off the cooldown. You're removing the built-in permaslow, so Skarner displacing an opponent even a great distance isn't the death sentence it would have been if he doesn't have support.


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Cynicatt

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
E
-Ability reworked from a line projectile to an on next hit attack
-On skarner's next hit he deals bonus magic damage to the target and all enemies behind the target in a line (similar to Vi's E)
-Targets hit are marked with crystal energy
-When damage is dealt to targets with crystal energy they are slowed significantly for a few seconds
-No longer grants attack speed (moved to Q)

Explanation:
-Moving the slow from the Q to the E creates a much more reliable and on demand slow. This is super cool for skarner because he can now make smart decisions when to hit the slow.
-Changing the E to an on next hit attack much better fits the purpose of the ability. It was never a useful ranged poke/nuke and that didnt fit into skarners effective range (melee). I also am hoping that the attack reset can have some cool synergy with his passive if you use it skillfully.
-Moving the attack speed buff to Q just seemed like a better fit as Q is his sustaned damage/brawling ability. It builds up over time so that when skarner players can stick around in a fight, they really beef up and get cooldown reduction from their passive.
-I'm still feeling out if the removal of the heal (and putting its power into the shield) is a good change. I am liking it so far, but I hear the complaints loud and clear.
I know I am kind of late to this discussion, but here I go...

I think it would be really cool if instead of in a line behind his target, it cleaved in a fat arc in front of him.
It would kind of go aesthetically with the claws and it would match in better with his melee design, and since he doesn't have a lot of gap closers like VI, it would be better to be hitting the enemies that are closer, instead of farther behind the target you're attacking, especially since it's not just for damage, it's leaving a mark you have to pop.
I don't know if there's a big difference between that and what you're testing, but I think it would work a lot better in teamfights too, since he can then easily slow whatever he has marked instead of having to run around and try to catch the stuff that was behind the person he attacked.


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Vlaadokash

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The new E does damage to enemies behind the initial target (like Vi E) so it can still be useful as a poke in lane.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT DO THIS!!!!


Caps I know but this is so bad for everyone who enjoys Skarners current E. The problem with the ability is its clunkiness and inability to be casted while ulting. Giving skarner a secondary slow just makes him another Leona/Nautilus/Senjuani clone. This is going to be Karma all over again.

In order to make his E useful you need to give it a QoL buff. Make so that there is no cast time on the ability, as it stands now there is an ~.5 sec delay that stops all other actions when used. To better explain the animation for the spell cast looks like a little jumping motion that appears to halt all movement and other actions when it is used. Furthermore, if E becomes castable while using Skarners ult if will feel MUCH more impactful.

All skarner needs for his W is for the movespeed to continue even after the shield is broken by damage. Take away the AS steroid if you have to as it is not very impactful for the lobster.


EDIT: Who am I kidding... Riot never responds to any post I make. Shame they are killing another unique champion to be replaced with a generic one. Farewell lane skarner.... you never had a chance


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messymike

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Rook View Post
I think it would be really cool if instead of in a line behind his target, it cleaved in a fat arc in front of him.
It would kind of go aesthetically with the claws and it would match in better with his melee design, and since he doesn't have a lot of gap closers like VI, it would be better to be hitting the enemies that are closer, instead of farther behind the target you're attacking, especially since it's not just for damage, it's leaving a mark you have to pop.
I don't know if there's a big difference between that and what you're testing, but I think it would work a lot better in teamfights too, since he can then easily slow whatever he has marked instead of having to run around and try to catch the stuff that was behind the person he attacked.
this just made me think of him using his tail during his new E. if he keeps the line projectile somehow, they should make the animation use his tail to lunge out in a straight line.


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Left for Zed

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Romove fracture for something decent plz


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Cynicatt

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by messymike View Post
this just made me think of him using his tail during his new E. if he keeps the line projectile somehow, they should make the animation use his tail to lunge out in a straight line.
That would actually be really cool aesthetically too. It would be nice to see him get a little more use out of that stinger, since it's the most deadly part of a scorpion.


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Scruffy I'm honestly not sold on losing the permaslow on Q with just what you've changed. I played the hell out of skarner in S2 before you changed his ult's interaction with escapes/flash and I'm not seeing what the new kit brings to the table over another jungler right now. His pre-6 gank is going to be a non spammable melee range slow and a speed boost to help him get in range that he loses when the shield breaks. Look at what kind of junglers have been popular this season and what they bring to the table that skarner right now just doesn't. Lee sin has a melee range AOE slow as well, but it also slows AS and he has 2 gap closers and an execute, once he hits 6 he has nearly as much if not more displacement with a well placed kick compared to a skarner drag. Volibear also has a melee slow and his only gap closer is a speed boost but he also has a pre-6 fling. Jarvan has a gapcloser that's also a knockup and an armor shred and an attack speed boost, and he has a slow.

I could go on like this for a while, Zac, Xin etc. but my point should be clear. What you have in that kit is not enough to make skarner worth picking as a jungler, even if you made his E a stun you've only bumped him up to Udyr levels of kiteability which is still awful. He also still basically doesn't have teamfight unless his flash is up because he has very little ability to get to the back line for an R. The only thing he has going for him right now is that if he does somehow get on top of you you can't just walk away from him, you have to burn a flash or escape ability. If you take that away from him you're going to have to significantly buff him somewhere else and I'm just not seeing that right now.


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gooby plsz

Junior Member

07-30-2013

Been reading the changes and some could work, others I have my doubts.

One thing that has to be improved for skarner is his ult. Currently, it feels like it's a 50/50 chance for the ult to actually work. I can't tell you the numerous times where I've heard the sound effect for skarner's ult but the ult never casts. I realize this was implemented to fix skarner's ult bugging people who were outside of his cast range (aka flashing away and still getting ulted), but Skarner's ult has to be fixed so that the ult sound effect and ult got go off simultaneously.