Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Roablin

Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
The point is they're gonna change him okay? This is about about removing the toxic elements so they can finally buff him to a viable level. They don't like unfun things. Poppy will remain trash tier until they can make her ult have fun counterplay. Skarner, same story except with his Q.

However I can see none of you have done so...so I have to sit hear listening to the initial shock and overreaction from the entire Skarner community until you guys get over it in a week. T_T They want it to happen, its gonna happen, and sadly it makes sense.
Alas, but that is not the case for some of us. Some of us enjoy Skarner's unique laning phase that is quite fun, and not in the least "toxic." We are afraid of that being removed. I am worried about changes to Fracture, not so much about changes to Crystal Slash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Magenta View Post
I've played AP Skarner top a few times. I really enjoy the heal on his fracture. I think there is interesting interaction with the opponent trying to stop me from procing my heals.

A few things:
1) The particle for the heal looks like the muramana proc. This is sort of cunfusing and I don't think its obvious to the enemy that I am healing from the marks. Maybe have a little botrk style particle.

2) If I buy Liandry's Torment, I automatically proc all of my heals. This is really strong, but I am not sure if this is an intended interaction.

3) My Q feels wasted because when building AP, it only does damage on the second strike. It would be interesting if it did escalating damage on each hit.
I totally agree, except for one thing. I think you underestimate the power of AP Skarner's Q. It is an unorthodox ability for mages, but it is a very powerful source of mage dps, especially with nashor's or guinsoo's. The only difficulty lies in getting close to opponents, especially with your relative squishiness.


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JPxKingOfWar

Member

07-30-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
The most fun aspects of playing Skarner is his Ultimate Skill, Stun and tugging the victims along. Simply if want him to OP , increase the Stun time to 3 seconds , dealing AP damage during the Stun double by second ( base on the player AP , E.g : Player AP is 100 , 1 second => 100 damage , 2 second => 200 damage , 3 second => 300 damage . Total 600 AP damage ! Very OP that will attracted player, make him a big threat to anyone who thinks he is trash . Of course you Riot can base on my idea to develop him, not persuade to follow all my opinions. )
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Simply his Q and E are a jokes compare to other jungler. Thats all
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Just simply his Ultimate and a shield, beside nothing to be scared about.
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Many , but i state only Jarvan IV and Zac , better mobility , better gank . Surprise attack .


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Kaixe Rho

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Hmmm.
No perma slow?
I don't think so. Full CDR time, baby, and Frozen fist is here for the fun.
W -> QQEQQQEQQQEQQEQQE seenproc sheenproc sheenproc
I love me some perma slow, and even if you remove it I WILL FIND A WAY.

I feel a little sorry for the Lane Skarner bros, though. I hope the new kit is still viable and fun in lane.


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Teamof10

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Skarner's Q is fun to spam, and of course his ult is, too!


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Roablin

Member

07-30-2013

These are simply my ideas, but this is how I would consider remaking Skarner to complement both his jungle and lane playstyles, and to solidify his thematic personality as a crystalline scorpion terror.
Passive
Leave as is
Q: Crystal Slash
Leave as is except either the slow activates every other slash, or the "slow train" is reduced through some other method.
Reasoning:
Currently there is counterplay to Skarner's perma-slow because Skarner generally has a difficult time getting close enough to his opponents to utilize it. However, if one is to reduce the power of the slow train, one could also increase the effectiveness of Skarner's mobility/ambushing tools which is what this kit aims to do.

W: Burrow
Skarner gains 15 / 17 / 19 / 21 / 23% movement speed and stealths/burrows underground for a short duration. Once he surfaces he gains 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% attack speed for 6 seconds.
Reasoning:
The one reason Skarner can't keep up with the high mobility champions of this era is the fact that if he could, there would little way for a even a clever opponent without a blink of some sort to escape Skarner's slow train. Reducing the power of the slow train allows for a more interesting and effective means of closing the gap to be given to Skarner. Burrow transforms Skarner's w into a one point wonder whose clear purpose as an ability is as an initiation / ganking tool.

E: Fracture
Remove cast time and reduce mana to at least 50 at all levels. In addition, relegate some of the original W's defensive stats to this ability. This could be done in many ways, perhaps through a passive armor bonus, or perhaps attacking marked targets could grant Skarner a scaling shield.
Reasoning:
Because Skarner's w is no longer necessary to clear camps, junglers are now able to put levels into and devote mana for using Fracture. The one reason junglers can not use this ability currently is because of its exorbitant mana costs and necessity of using both Q and W to clear camps. Fracture currently costs more mana that Corki's Valkyrie for goodness sakes, but as a mid laner who builds tear I know that Fracture is very good for clearing camps if one has the mana to use it. Fracture now defines the purpose of Skarner's e as a sustain / damage mitigation tool.

R: Impale
Fix edge cases. Impale gains bonus range when suppressing an enemy marked by Fracture.
Reasoning:
This is pretty self descriptive. Wasting your ult on an opponent with a flash, blink, or pounce is a major frustration for Skarner players and this change aims to prevent those occurences from happening. Once again, because Skarner's perma-slow is reduced, Skarner deserves better ways to catch up to his opponents, and that is achieved through Impale's range increase for marked targets.

Note about jungle Skarner versus lane Skarner:
I believe that this kit suits both playstyles equally. This kit solves the problem of Fracture being absolutely unusable for junglers while being absolutely necessary for laners by removing jungler's dependence on Skarner's w to clear camps, and by increasing the effectiveness of Fracture for clearing camps. Fracture is also usable for duels because it now has no cast time, so Skarner can continue to focus on sticking to enemies.


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Unfearing

Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roablin View Post
Alas, but that is not the case for some of us. Some of us enjoy Skarner's unique laning phase that is quite fun, and not in the least "toxic." We are afraid of that being removed. I am worried about changes to Fracture, not so much about changes to Crystal Slash.
I will quit League if they remove the spammable slow. Seriously. They should make it less frustrating to fight against, but Skarner is the only champion I ever truly loved. I fought through season 3 because I thought Skarner was going to make a comeback.

Here are my proposed changes:

Q - Repeatable slow, decrease slow, increase damage. Change it so that it applies on next autoattack, remove its area of effect, change it so that it applies to one target, on hit effect, resets autoattack. Decrease mana, this shouldn't be mana restricted, without it he really cannot jungle too well, unless given another skill that can deal damage without cc with low mana cost.

W - I don't know how much this needs changing, I haven't used it lately. I would like to somehow increase his sustain in jungle, though, it's very lacking.

E - This is the large revamp skill. The E was clunky, as aforementioned. I would personally like a skill that provides some kind of vamp or such. Maybe just something that vamps.

R - MULTITARGET ULT. Lolno. It's really not that bad where it is right now.


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Stampede EU

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey guys and girls, I'm back. Been working hard today on some updates. I learned a bunch of stuff testing the version I posted on here yesterday. (you all totally called some of the outcomes)

1. Having the Q slow in bursts but not permaslow worked out great. Skarner felt powerful when he slows people, but there are opportunities for them to dash away or stun him.
2. On the other hand, having his Q slow turning on and off in an alternating fashion was very hard to keep track of and just felt a bit unnecessarily complex.
3. The W speed buff is really great and skarner isn't quite as kiteable as much as before.
4. The E changes made it feel more useful, but the entire pattern of a ranged projectile with a cast time still feels very out of place in skarner's melee focused kit. I think the E may need to be redone entirely.

Based on those observations, and some of the feedback you all are giving me on here I'm working on 3 new changes to test today.

Q
-Reverting the pattern back to the old way where once you have crystal energy you keep it up as long as you keep hitting Qs
-Removing the slow from the crystal energy all together (its moving to E!)
-Hitting enemies with Q now gives skarner an attack speed buff that stacks up to 3 times (this is beast)

E
-Ability reworked from a line projectile to an on next hit attack
-On skarner's next hit he deals bonus magic damage to the target and all enemies behind the target in a line (similar to Vi's E)
-Targets hit are marked with crystal energy
-When damage is dealt to targets with crystal energy they are slowed significantly for a few seconds
-No longer grants attack speed (moved to Q)

Explanation:
-Moving the slow from the Q to the E creates a much more reliable and on demand slow. This is super cool for skarner because he can now make smart decisions when to hit the slow.
-Changing the E to an on next hit attack much better fits the purpose of the ability. It was never a useful ranged poke/nuke and that didnt fit into skarners effective range (melee). I also am hoping that the attack reset can have some cool synergy with his passive if you use it skillfully.
-Moving the attack speed buff to Q just seemed like a better fit as Q is his sustaned damage/brawling ability. It builds up over time so that when skarner players can stick around in a fight, they really beef up and get cooldown reduction from their passive.
-I'm still feeling out if the removal of the heal (and putting its power into the shield) is a good change. I am liking it so far, but I hear the complaints loud and clear.

I'll be testing these new changes today and bringing back the good news when I have more to update. Definitely tell me your thoughts on the changes, you guys were pretty much spot on with some of the weaknesses of the last design.

-Scruff
Hope you offer refunds to people that get screwed over by these proposed changes. I picked up Skarner back on release for his permaslow and his ultimate, I didn't pick up gap closer lacking dude that has a crappy slow once in a blue moon.

Might aswell rework Ashe too while you're at it.


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messymike

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy928 View Post
I just...

I might as well stop playing Skarner now. You're killing my favorite champion. Again.

A Skarner without permaslow is like a Jax without dodge - the champion just isn't right.

I'm sure he'll be "stronger", but I'm not convinced that I'll want to play him. Pulsating AoE damage tied to an attack speed steroid sounds like an incredible jungle clearing ability, so that should definitely help his early game.

I don't think that the ramping shield speed will be nearly as satisfying as Hecarim's E since breaking Skarner's W early will absolutely cripple the ability. It's like chopping the end off of Nasus' Wither with Tenacity before that got bugfixed - it was a massive hit to the ability's power level. I forsee this being an absolutely massive issue for Skarner.

Current faith in the project: 10%
i agree... but im still hoping that since scruffy is doing these changes and testing them day by day that he'll eventually land on something similar to what skarner is now. permaslow and hook are the 2 fundamental skarner abilities.


and if skarner loses his viability as AP i will forever hold a grudge.


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Unfearing

Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roablin View Post
These are simply my ideas, but this is how I would consider remaking Skarner to complement both his jungle and lane playstyles, and to solidify his thematic personality as a crystalline scorpion terror.
Passive
Leave as is
Q: Crystal Slash
Leave as is except either the slow activates every other slash, or the "slow train" is reduced through some other method.
Reasoning:
Currently there is counterplay to Skarner's perma-slow because Skarner generally has a difficult time getting close enough to his opponents to utilize it. However, if one is to reduce the power of the slow train, one could also increase the effectiveness of Skarner's mobility/ambushing tools which is what this kit aims to do.

W: Burrow
Skarner gains 15 / 17 / 19 / 21 / 23% movement speed and stealths/burrows underground for a short duration. Once he surfaces he gains 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% attack speed for 6 seconds.
Reasoning:
The one reason Skarner can't keep up with the high mobility champions of this era is the fact that if he could, there would little way for a even a clever opponent without a blink of some sort to escape Skarner's slow train. Reducing the power of the slow train allows for a more interesting and effective means of closing the gap to be given to Skarner. Burrow transforms Skarner's w into a one point wonder whose clear purpose as an ability is as an initiation / ganking tool.

E: Fracture
Remove cast time and reduce mana to at least 50 at all levels. In addition, relegate some of the original W's defensive stats to this ability. This could be done in many ways, perhaps through a passive armor bonus, or perhaps attacking marked targets could grant Skarner a scaling shield.
Reasoning:
Because Skarner's w is no longer necessary to clear camps, junglers are now able to put levels into and devote mana for using Fracture. The one reason junglers can not use this ability currently is because of its exorbitant mana costs and necessity of using both Q and W to clear camps. Fracture currently costs more mana that Corki's Valkyrie for goodness sakes, but as a mid laner who builds tear I know that Fracture is very good for clearing camps if one has the mana to use it. Fracture now defines the purpose of Skarner's e as a sustain / damage mitigation tool.

R: Impale
Fix edge cases. Impale gains bonus range when suppressing an enemy marked by Fracture.
Reasoning:
This is pretty self descriptive. Wasting your ult on an opponent with a flash, blink, or pounce is a major frustration for Skarner players and this change aims to prevent those occurences from happening. Once again, because Skarner's perma-slow is reduced, Skarner deserves better ways to catch up to his opponents, and that is achieved through Impale's range increase for marked targets.

Note about jungle Skarner versus lane Skarner:
I believe that this kit suits both playstyles equally. This kit solves the problem of Fracture being absolutely unusable for junglers while being absolutely necessary for laners by removing jungler's dependence on Skarner's w to clear camps, and by increasing the effectiveness of Fracture for clearing camps. Fracture is also usable for duels because it now has no cast time, so Skarner can continue to focus on sticking to enemies.
This would make his W more frustrating to deal with, and completely wreck his sustain though. Junglers just aren't designed to be powerful gankers and have tons of sustain, and the mechanic of being able to burrow would be insane to his ganking potential.


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messymike

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roablin View Post
These are simply my ideas, but this is how I would consider remaking Skarner to complement both his jungle and lane playstyles, and to solidify his thematic personality as a crystalline scorpion terror.
Passive
Leave as is
Q: Crystal Slash
Leave as is except either the slow activates every other slash, or the "slow train" is reduced through some other method.
Reasoning:
Currently there is counterplay to Skarner's perma-slow because Skarner generally has a difficult time getting close enough to his opponents to utilize it. However, if one is to reduce the power of the slow train, one could also increase the effectiveness of Skarner's mobility/ambushing tools which is what this kit aims to do.

W: Burrow
Skarner gains 15 / 17 / 19 / 21 / 23% movement speed and stealths/burrows underground for a short duration. Once he surfaces he gains 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% attack speed for 6 seconds.
Reasoning:
The one reason Skarner can't keep up with the high mobility champions of this era is the fact that if he could, there would little way for a even a clever opponent without a blink of some sort to escape Skarner's slow train. Reducing the power of the slow train allows for a more interesting and effective means of closing the gap to be given to Skarner. Burrow transforms Skarner's w into a one point wonder whose clear purpose as an ability is as an initiation / ganking tool.

E: Fracture
Remove cast time and reduce mana to at least 50 at all levels. In addition, relegate some of the original W's defensive stats to this ability. This could be done in many ways, perhaps through a passive armor bonus, or perhaps attacking marked targets could grant Skarner a scaling shield.
Reasoning:
Because Skarner's w is no longer necessary to clear camps, junglers are now able to put levels into and devote mana for using Fracture. The one reason junglers can not use this ability currently is because of its exorbitant mana costs and necessity of using both Q and W to clear camps. Fracture currently costs more mana that Corki's Valkyrie for goodness sakes, but as a mid laner who builds tear I know that Fracture is very good for clearing camps if one has the mana to use it. Fracture now defines the purpose of Skarner's e as a sustain / damage mitigation tool.

R: Impale
Fix edge cases. Impale gains bonus range when suppressing an enemy marked by Fracture.
Reasoning:
This is pretty self descriptive. Wasting your ult on an opponent with a flash, blink, or pounce is a major frustration for Skarner players and this change aims to prevent those occurences from happening. Once again, because Skarner's perma-slow is reduced, Skarner deserves better ways to catch up to his opponents, and that is achieved through Impale's range increase for marked targets.

Note about jungle Skarner versus lane Skarner:
I believe that this kit suits both playstyles equally. This kit solves the problem of Fracture being absolutely unusable for junglers while being absolutely necessary for laners by removing jungler's dependence on Skarner's w to clear camps, and by increasing the effectiveness of Fracture for clearing camps. Fracture is also usable for duels because it now has no cast time, so Skarner can continue to focus on sticking to enemies.

as a lane skarner i approve