Why isn't Bortk melee only?

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Silverkillz

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Senior Member

07-24-2013

Personally, I think Ranged AD still beat health stacking without BORK, just because they are ranged and can kite (and if they are building health, then less armor = more damage on them).

Melee can make a much better use of the item, and actually NEED it to do their role. Ranged AD should have to think about positioning, and need weaknesses. (NOT SAYING VAYNE IS OP, don't turn it into one of those threads)


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IS1d1292493e47b4417f0d6

Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The goal of the item was to beat health stacking, not for melee only to beat health stacking.

I know we're nerfing the active in a coming patch, because it's too good for ranged champion kiting.
which in return nerfs melee champion chasing...which leads us back to the original question...........


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GorthLord

Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The goal of the item was to beat health stacking, not for melee only to beat health stacking.

I know we're nerfing the active in a coming patch, because it's too good for ranged champion kiting.
Is it going to be like mallet and trinity force where it steals X% for melee and a smaller Y% for ranged?


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS13d1b7345cef086e4182a View Post
im not talking about removing ranged ad from the game. im talking, about the freaking roles in this game being referred to as

- solo top
- solo mid
- jungle

- ranged ad + support.

not duo bot. fcking ranged ad + support. because in 3 years, this was the only conceivable option for a duo lane. you know what happened, when double bruiser bot was a thing? nerf! they didnt even beat ranged ad + supp out of the game, it was just that the lane was even viable was for some reason concidered to be a problem.

diversity is encouraged in every other lane by riot for some reason. they went out of their way, to make top lane open to tanky ap, ranged ap, and asassins. mid lane open to assassins and ad casters, instead of a mandatory mage. they even went out of their way and designed varus as a ranged ad, who was supposed to be able to midlane.

im not talking about making ranged ad invalid. im talking about making them finally replacable from a team composition alltogether. like any other class of champions.
Double bruiser works. Not like Panth/Xin, that's just stupid, but a high farm carry like Kha/Zed/Jayce and the other "bruiser" is a high utility tank who can.survive without much gold like Leona/Nasus/etc.
How do I know it works? Because it happens every week in LCS when the jungler has to help the 2v1 laner out. Occasionally these 2v2 lanes get first blood for the Nocturne/Zed pair, you get my point.


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shppy

Senior Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The goal of the item was to beat health stacking, not for melee only to beat health stacking.

I know we're nerfing the active in a coming patch, because it's too good for ranged champion kiting.
if it was meant to counter hp stacking, why even have the active in the first place?

And why make the item so cost-effective in all conditions if it's meant to be a health stacking counter? (without even putting value on the active, the item breaks even against opponents with ~900 or more hp, which is far from 'health stacking'... specific 'counters' should not be useful, much less above-average, in non-counter cases)

And why just nerf the active for everyone if it's too good for ranged champion kiting?

And why create an item with an such an array of efficient desirable stats in one package? You do know that's why wriggle's was a problem, right?



And finally, what makes you think ranged dps ever needed a counter to health stacking? Last I checked, range actually affords a champ the opportunity to build up massive scaling from crit, and that certainly didn't have a problem dealing with health stacking. Melees legitimately needed a counter to health stacking because they can't scale their offense to that obscene level due to needing to concern themselves with defense; ranged champs never needed a health-stacking counter





Don't call BotRK a 'health stacking counter'. That's a lie and you know it. It's a 'melee counter'. It's made to disproportionately screw over the people that need to actually build health in order to fight, while also screwing over the people that need to stay close to enemies to fight. I.E. Melees.

Cuz you know, being melee isn't already enough of a disadvantage, gotta allow the ranged champs to make it even worse.


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Drake Nightroad

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Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The goal of the item was to beat health stacking, not for melee only to beat health stacking.

I know we're nerfing the active in a coming patch, because it's too good for ranged champion kiting.
ok Phreak i don't know what your talking about kiting .. being a main tank sup .. i been taged by that iteam every time they got close to me . didn't even have to have a fight to start just slaped with the active.. an a way to fight health stackers.. XD 5% of your current health. you have armor . well i got the king .. ya lose


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Pvt Poncho

Member

07-24-2013

Because riot always harps about build variety. Adc itemization is already extremely stale, and I think removing botrk as an option would be counter, atleast without a replacement, to their item philosophy. In addition, the botrk was made for both adc and melee because, at the beginning of season 3 adcs were absolute **** because of the excessive tankiness that plagued the league. If they make botrk melee only I imagine they will make a new adc item LOL.


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverkillz View Post
Personally, I think Ranged AD still beat health stacking without BORK, just because they are ranged and can kite (and if they are building health, then less armor = more damage on them).

Melee can make a much better use of the item, and actually NEED it to do their role. Ranged AD should have to think about positioning, and need weaknesses. (NOT SAYING VAYNE IS OP, don't turn it into one of those threads)
I'd like to see 2 plots to examine whether range really beats melee that hard: one of average gapcloser distance vs date and another of average ranged AA range vs date. I'm guessing the latter is about flat while the former increases over time. Combine that with nerfs to ADC move speed items and flash range nerf - I'd argue that it's easier to defeat kite these days than it's ever been.


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Pvt Poncho

Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by March of Dimes View Post
I'd like to see 2 plots to examine whether range really beats melee that hard: one of average gapcloser distance vs date and another of average ranged AA range vs date. I'm guessing the latter is about flat while the former increases over time. Combine that with nerfs to ADC move speed items and flash range nerf - I'd argue that it's easier to defeat kite these days than it's ever been.
certainly agree with you. I personally liked the movement speed stats in season 2 better, but thats probably because I played adc alot.


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Excited Soup

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Senior Member

07-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManDudeMcDudeman View Post
What about Iceborn then? It shares a similar situation to BORK.
I think the idea is that you give up damage to get iceborne, which is fine. Botrk is a damage item.