Morello, A Moment of Your Time Please for Pantheon

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Jaghatai

Senior Member

10-21-2013

As a new Pantheon player - my biggest beef with him is none of his moves feel impactful. His Q is lackluster until used as an execute, his W is very utility oriented - but does no damage and has a long cool down... His E is the biggest problem I have.

His E is his primary damage source but requires him to stand still for a long time. This might have been great when he was released, but in today's game world - it's a death sentence unless you are FIRMLY in control of the fight ... and I mean FIRMLY.

If I throw an E in a normal duel where I'm even slightly behind - I'm done - I'm standing still unable to defend myself. OR I have to cancel the move to run away (which pantheon is awful at doing).

I like the theory of his E - but the execution is bad. If I could move while performing the move, then maybe it would be better?

His utility and DPS is too low to build as bruiser and be effective - To be useful damage wise, you lose so much tankiness that 3/4 of his kit are suicide buttons (including his Ult). I know some of my friends literally cackle with glee when they see a mandrop because they kill him as soon as he lands ... LOL one friend once exclaimed "Incoming Free Gold!" when the mandrop circle appeared.


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VelNyeScienceEye

Senior Member

10-21-2013

I feel if you took away some of his movement speed then you could buff up his defenses and make him more like the Spartans he's based off of


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Proelium

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Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Mallet View Post
I feel if you took away some of his movement speed then you could buff up his defenses and make him more like the Spartans he's based off of

Spartans were very physically fit and ran all the time. Fast is fitting.


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Proelium

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Senior Member

10-21-2013

I love Pantheon's passive. Managing it right feels so good!


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Proelium

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Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
So aggregating responses:

1. He's too squishy when building assassin, and he has no escapes.
2. His ultimate is hard to land and has a too long of a cast time.
3. His passive doesn't feel very meaningful.

________________________________

1. His damage output is pretty darn high against squishy targets, and every time he has 400g at fountain and an open item slot, he can powerspike, because almost all of his item paths involve long swords. In terms of raw single target decimation capability, he falls off late game once team fights start happening (he hates peel) but at least in my experience, he can provide comparable map pressure to Shen with his semi-global ultimate. I personally feel these are reasonable trade-offs for the squishiness.

2. His ultimate could use some intuitiveness changes, because the optimal use case is rarely to jump ON someone, but to generally jump in their escape path due to it's cast time. I'm not sure how I would resolve this, but I agree with the frustration point. Maybe if the range of W extended for .5 sec after usinghis jump?

3. At least in my opinion, his passive feels awesome in lane, but come midgame teamfights, it's hard for it to feel impactful. Again, dunno, what we could do to it though to make it feel better.

What are your guys thoughts?

Yes thank you ! The passive is great! Please don't mess with it.


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Jarvan IV BR

Senior Member

10-21-2013

As a Pantheon main (Only Gold III) I feel as if his damage output is definitely high enough.

His passive is amazing for laning and dueling, and diving. = Awesome

His Q is good for last hitting and poking, as well as stacking up your passive. = Awesome

His W is a gap closing mini stun that resets his passive and lets you get your E off, That's pretty much perfect. = Awesome

His E is a massive nuke if you land all 3 strikes and gives a fantastic passive. = Also Awesome

the only thing I don't really like about his kit is how much mana his ultimate costs, When paired with his Q W E Combo you're practically out of mana completely.
If the mana cost on his ultimate was slightly reduced I feel like he'd be a lot more impactful.

That's just what I think though ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ


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KYU22

Senior Member

10-21-2013

I'm not sure how you're even supposed to play him. He's supposed to be an assassin and scales incredibly well with bonus AD, but has no escape, two abilities that have AP scaling, and doesn't have any real burst. Since he scales with bonus AD, building him more bruiser leaves his damage subpar and turns you into a stunbot. I guess his late game is trash to balance out how unfun his early game is if you're laning against him, eating spears until he goes oom or you die, but he just doesn't seem to be in that great of a spot compared to most assassins.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

10-21-2013

Maybe give a minimum to his passive for going into midgame vs champions? Sort of like how it's there for jungle mobs? Just needs to always proc when a slow is attached to the auto...


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VMan

Member

10-21-2013

@RiotFpMcgee

Riot made Pantheon drop a **** ton of tiers when you removed the ability to queue your W while in your ult. I made a thread on it when it happened which had several pages of people agreeing it wasn't needed to take out, and no riot response.

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ


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Stunkfoot

Junior Member

10-21-2013

I've been playing him for a few weeks now and here are my observations.

Overall, I find him to be a fun champ to play. He has a fairly strong early lane phase but can be countered like all champs. In exchange for his mobility, fairly high damage and cc, he does not have true escape abilities. Late game, he falls off a bit, but not as much as some people make it out to be. He cannot be relied upon to be the tank for your team and if he has to be the sole instigator, he will usually die quick in 5v5 situations - a bit like Warwick in that respect.

In answer to your questions, RiotFpMcgee:

1. Agree. He can put out quite a bit of dmg and has good cc with the Ageis (W) to mitigate return damage. He is best at 1v1ís, pushing lanes/diving turrets, and chasing runners down.

2. Pantheonís ult has the potential to open up more interesting team play opportunities, but it is too damn slow. It is too slow to use as a meaningful escape if you are cornered and it is too slow to land consistently in team fights, which I always assumed to be the intent of the ability.

- Is it possible to get some time off the liftoff and some time off the landing? Maybe as we rank it up? It might open the ability up to be used more mid-fight or heck...even land on top of someone. I think one of the issues here is the increase to movement speed with things like Lv3 boots (alacrity) - it makes it too easy to juke the impact circle.
- The radius and dmg do not need to be as big if you are looking for things to trade off.
- Alternatively, would increasing the circle radius help? Iím not sure.

3. I actually like the passive and the refresh of it with W. It has saved my behind a couple times in 1v2 situations. The key is being selective about when to use it and dodging into bushes/LOSíing, etc. It doesnít have as great of an effect in 5v5 team fights but is it necessarily your only job to be there for the fight or sliding out and cross-pushing another lane to force your opponents to choose?