Morello, A Moment of Your Time Please for Pantheon

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Belharion

Senior Member

10-21-2013

I think a major reason for the fall off of assassins such as Talon, Pantheon, and Akali is the difference between targeted and un-targeted gap closers. I'm seeing a major pattern here with the likes of Ahri, Fizz, Kassadin, and Zed, all of which have a gap closer that doesn't require a target (alongside of short cd's on said gap-closers and/or multiple gap-closers but w/e). So these untargeted gap-closers have escape potential as well as kill potential increasing the effectiveness of those assassins by innately giving them more utility over the targeted gap-closer assassins mentioned above.

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but I hope this sheds some light on why the most popular assassins are popular right now and why Pantheon isn't. And if this is a repost, kudos to the guys who saw this first.


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blitz4

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Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
Since this thread is still getting some life, and I haven't been on the forums in quite some time, I feel a lot more comfortable talking about this topic.

Do you guys still feel like Pantheon doesn't have a good niche/role within the scope of the game? What specifically do you think he fails at? And by the same token, what do you think is core to what makes Pantheon Pantheon?

Warning, I'm not actively working on a rework or anything of that nature involving him, but I saw this thread was still getting some activity and I haven't said hey in awhile, so I wanted to chat
I don't play him, but I've gone against him top lane as Jax and Shen fairly recently. Panth doesn't seem all that bad to me at the moment. I think OP's proposed changes would make him overboard. I wouldn't disagree with some minor buffs or QoLs, though.

That's my impression, anyways- for what it's worth.


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Biggg O

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
Since this thread is still getting some life, and I haven't been on the forums in quite some time, I feel a lot more comfortable talking about this topic.

Do you guys still feel like Pantheon doesn't have a good niche/role within the scope of the game? What specifically do you think he fails at? And by the same token, what do you think is core to what makes Pantheon Pantheon?

Warning, I'm not actively working on a rework or anything of that nature involving him, but I saw this thread was still getting some activity and I haven't said hey in awhile, so I wanted to chat
To me pantheon is more like a mid laner. He has no escapes(his w doesn't count because unless the enemy jungler comes from behind you wouldn't really jump at him unless you want to stun). He is more burst than overtime damage if anything. His Q W E Q combo with an AA is all he has until they are on cooldown, then you just AA till your spear comes back. He is very squishy for a "man". His W is ap which makes it literally do no damage. His ult is also ap. Lower the ults base damage and make it an ad ratio, that way if you are really fed you should do some serious damage with it. Haha you get? Fed as in fat? Falling from the sky? The more you weigh the more damage, wait what? Nevermind. Anyways, his late game sucks, very squishy not enough damage even if fed. Can be kited hard.

In the end, PANTHEON IS A MAN, he has to go in and take damage and block ashe arrows with his shield, and not just chuck spears and die fast.


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PrinceVert

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Make Panth's Q crit outside his E passive now he doesn't fall off late game so hard when he still do great poke late game


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Heek

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worst Jungle Eu View Post
Please....dear god no.
Don't do a thread.
If you take what the general populace of what GD thinks about panth we might come out with something terrible.
Just do it on your own please.
Wow
Very GD
Such hypocrisy


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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
Since this thread is still getting some life, and I haven't been on the forums in quite some time, I feel a lot more comfortable talking about this topic.

Do you guys still feel like Pantheon doesn't have a good niche/role within the scope of the game? What specifically do you think he fails at? And by the same token, what do you think is core to what makes Pantheon Pantheon?

Warning, I'm not actively working on a rework or anything of that nature involving him, but I saw this thread was still getting some activity and I haven't said hey in awhile, so I wanted to chat
I think if his E was adjusted for only reducing damage done to minions he could be an excellent jungler. He is the king of roaming AD assassins and should be on top again.


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Gentleman Thief

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
Since this thread is still getting some life, and I haven't been on the forums in quite some time, I feel a lot more comfortable talking about this topic.

Do you guys still feel like Pantheon doesn't have a good niche/role within the scope of the game? What specifically do you think he fails at? And by the same token, what do you think is core to what makes Pantheon Pantheon?

Warning, I'm not actively working on a rework or anything of that nature involving him, but I saw this thread was still getting some activity and I haven't said hey in awhile, so I wanted to chat
To me, Pantheon's most obvious problem is the fact that his ult is so easy to avoid. If you reduced the damage and made it faster, it would be vastly improved.


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Bigger Hat Logan

Senior Member

10-21-2013

obviously this guy never played AP pantheon and was never shown the true power of the flying baker.


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Falling Objects

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotFpMcgee View Post
Do you guys still feel like Pantheon doesn't have a good niche/role within the scope of the game? What specifically do you think he fails at? And by the same token, what do you think is core to what makes Pantheon Pantheon?
I mained pantheon to Gold last season. Take from me what you will.

The good with Pantheon:
1) SPEARS. SPEARS. SPEARS. SPEARS. ARE YOU HAVING FUN IN LANE YET? NO? HAVE A SPEAR.
2) Hi guys I'm mid pantheon. Hi guys I'm bot.
3) His abs are almost Kassadin tier.

Issues with Pantheon:
1) He loses the majority of his lane matchups, and unless he gets hilariously fed his lead in lane become irrelevant as the enemy simply outscales him past the 20 minute mark.
2) Ergo, he kind of has to jungle. He has phenomenal ganking potential, but all the other common jungle picks do his job better at this point in time.
3) Has to build damage to deal damage. Has to build tanky to survive in teamfights. Ergo, he either successfully explodes an enemy squishy before he dies, or he's a 1.5 second stun on legs.
4) He's an assassin with 0 escape mechanisms. No, a gimmicky passive that doesn't really feel rewarding 90% of the time doesn't count as an escape mechanism.
5) Restrictive mana costs. I can name dozens of champions who can harass harder with less prohibitive (Or even non-existent) mana costs.

Pantheon envisioned:

1) Somebody who will slap your **** in lane.
2) He has a giant shield. It really feels like it should do something. (See; supports/cannon minions trolling you).
3) Somebody who will slap your **** out of lane.
4) Somebody who isn't hardcountered by armor. You're telling me somebody raised in the art of war since he was a child, trained by warriors who only really enjoy fights when they're outnumbered in triple digit figures, and who is seen as the paragon best-we-have figure by said war tribe hasn't figured out a trick or two to get around blokes wearing plate armor and the likes?
5) Somebody who will slap your **** in teamfights (without dying messily immediately afterwards)
6) He's manly as hell. He should be able to deflect arrows and swords with his skin with how toned and muscular he is. Fix this immediately. Only other males with comparable muscles (or ample facial hair to compensate*) should be able to compete with Pantheon.

Solutions:

Give him passive armor pen/reduction. Xin has it. Darius has it. Pantheon is pigeon holed into building attack damage. Yes, AP Pantheon is a thing. It's a troll build though (mostly). 15/20/25% armor pen on his ult would increase his quality of life dramatically (And also give incentive to level the damn thing past one point in 6).

Give him a W that does something. I forget 90% of the time it reprocs his passive because his passive doesn't do a hell of a lot most of the time. W is a one point wonder because it doesn't really DO anything noticeable past that first point. 5/10/15/20/25 armor on it because it's a huge ass shield.

Give him a passive that isn't a gimmick. It really is a gimmick. Yes you can tower dive with it. Yes it sometimes will save your ass. Yes you can backdoor towers hilariously if you go attack speed tank Pantheon (But AP Xin does it better).

Make his R lose some cooldown time upon getting kills or assists. Something like 20% of remaining cooldown for kills, and 10% for assists. This helps to keep him relevant as a threat.




*While sporting an excellent beard and generally being seen as manly, Graves is still disqualified due to being a ranged carry gun wielding sissy.


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Tankjohnson

Senior Member

10-21-2013

bump