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A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Eisenkrieger

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Wav3Break:
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!



Turning Bola Strike into a skill shot is a big NO for me. If it becomes a skill shot you can basically say goodbye to its status as a powerful laning tool for Rengar. Seriously, Bola Strike is the way Rengar CS's when he's being zoned by a ranged champ. It's also his harass in lane outside of jumping on top of the enemy. Turning Bola Strike into a skill shot trades consistency for a possibility for extra power and IMO, that's not what Rengar needs in top lane.

The empowered Bola Strike seems pretty good as it is, I think if you wanted to buff it in anyway I'd just add a small aoe slow to it but to be honest I don't think he needs it.


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vortical42

Senior Member

07-18-2013

I really like the idea of bola strike as a skill shot, but I have a hard time seeing how you would ever balance the empowered version. No one is going to risk wasting their empowered spell on a skillshot unless the reward for hitting it is huge. Any effect from the spell that is powerful enough to justfy that risk though is going to end up warping his kit. It would be impossible to put any power elsewhere without making him completely OP.

There are two things I can think of that MIGHT solve the problem but I'm not sure. First would be to make it a weak line nuke that stops at the first champion it hits (or at max range). The second would be to make it function similar to Olaf's axes. If the bola reaches it's max range without hitting a champion, it would drop to the ground and rengar would be able to pick it up to restore ferocity. So the final spell would look like this:

Bola Strike
Rengar throws a Bola that damages all enemies that it hits (50% damage to minions). If the bola hits an enemy champion it detonates, dealing additional damage and slowing the target. If the bola reaches the end of its range without hitting a champion it drops to the ground. Rengar can pick up the fallen bola to restore a point of ferocity.

Empowered Bola
Hitting an enemy champion roots the target. The explosion also damages and slows anything in a small area around it. Picking up a missed Bola restores 3 ferocity rather than 1.


The other benefit to this approach would be that it frees up some design space on his W. Since bola strike is filling that aoe waveclear function, you could move some (or all) of the damage off of battle roar and turn it into more of a pure utility spell.


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X1zz3l

Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Wav3Break:


How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .



Making Bola Strike a skillshot sounds great but it'll need some other improvements (DMG, CC) to make up for the lack off save damage

Depends on what you mean, an aoe slow or something similiar? A short speedboost for your team to catch up to the prey? Overall, team utility is always nice

I'm glad that Bonetooth works great with the machete path, will open a much better path for him when jungling


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PapaShongo53

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Scarizard:

Catching this before i leave - i think something like this sounds really cool. I know i mentioned earlier that we were looking at +MS% in brush. What do people think about similar version?

'Rengar gains X movement speed while not visible to the enemy team (or out of combat). This bonus is doubled while Rengar is in brush.' ?

A lot of the bonetooth ideas specifically have been pretty interesting - Wav3break's heavy lifting is going to be focused on BTN, but i'll make sure to keep passing these along.


Wouldn't this give away ward positions without true vision? If he's running in for a gank and suddenly is slower he knows there is a ward.


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Xanthalis

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Wav3Break:
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!


Would Bola Strike being a skill shot allow it to have no cast time? The cast time on Bola Strike just feels very rough to me. Like I'm moving and hunting and want to slow them down to insure the catch, but I'm going to take a long pause mid chase....

It feels really clunky.

To answer more generally, I'd say if the pay off is acceptable then making it a skillshot seems like a good idea.

Would it be blocked by minions?


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Crüniac

Recruiter

07-18-2013

To make Empowered Bola Strike into a team utility, make it so it's still targeted, and still slows, but has a secondary target circle, like Xin's dash, positioned behind it. Things within that circle (or other shape) can't leave it for a second. So it's would be an AoE soft root.


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Servantofthe99

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Wav3Break:
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!



Q seems to be much improved now kit wise. he can still dish out damage and chain link his Q.

If bola strike would be a skillshot it would need a longer range and a greater reward factor. maybe make it apply a mark to the target hit and giving rengar the ability to apply his jump passive to the marked target? empowered version could make him shoot two bolas.

Also please keep his ultimate unique. there is no point of his ult if the enemy just knows he's there. that more or less eliminates the point of stealth in the first place.


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GrumpyKatze

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Pls don't change Rengar... He is fairly weak without people knowing how to triple Q.


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

07-18-2013

if you increase bolas strike range while making it a skillshot, it could be good for ganks


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Tattersail

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Wav3Break:
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!


Eh, if Bola strike became a skillshot you guys would have to drastically increase it's range. As it is now you basically have to walk right up to them to cast it. And I don't see how Bola could be anything but a single target skill, as it is a Bola xD