A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Ashes Arise

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistavin View Post
Compare him to Khazix. Kha kills carries in 1 rotation (maybe 2 qs), which takes 2-3 seconds. If he initiated the fight, he dies and still MIGHT kill the carry. If he leaps in DURING the fight, he can assassinate a carry and leap out. Rengar HAS NO LEAP OUT. If Rengar must jump in and take 5-6 seconds to kill a carry building pure assassin, then he is worthless and must build tank.
This exactly. If they take away his initial burst. Then building/playing like an assassin would be stupid. This is what they can't seem to get through their heads.


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EyceAether

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Personally, I wouldn't mind Rengar's ult basically being a glorified bush. Lion's are all about being unseen, and if they are seen then the jigs up, and they can't really do anything.

I honestly think you should take some of that movement speed out of Rengars ultimate, and instead change it so that his passive "Unseen Predator" works like Kha Zix's passive. While the opponent doesn't have vision of Rengar, he can leap at them.

Change his Empowered Savagery to apply a Bleed, give his empowered battle roar a fear. Bleed, Fear and Root (From his three spells) scale based on the level of the skill. From like 1 to 2. A fully stacked Bonetooth Necklace would cause the empowered effects on his skills to have a 50% increased duration.

The bleed on Savagery would do damage over time, but would have the added affect of granting Rengar vision of the target and making it so that they can be leaped to by Rengar.

What do you think? This would change his power curve a bit. Rengar would in essence be a control Assassin. He would have a lot of soft CC that would make fighting against him a very scary thing, without being "Oh my god I died in 2 seconds". It would also allow him to decide how he's going to deal with each opponent.
Just bumping this up...


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Furi Kuri

Member

07-17-2013

The original post is getting slowly more, and more down votes. I think this is the community telling you we dont want a tanky dps Rengar.


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MidbossK

Member

07-17-2013

Just my 2 cents.

His ult never really feels like an ult, to be honest. In a way, its like a glorified WW E (faster movement to your prey, vision), but makes you kill yourself more often because you trade your death for the enemy's carry. It feels like a utility move that I wish was less powerful, but on an ammo count so I could use it more often. Same for Khazix. Putting both of them to an ammo version of the ult, but less powerful allows both of them to use their passive/kit better and allow for more play and counterplay. It also alleviates the problem of kiting to the point of feeling unable to play against hard CCers.

My (bad) example would be a much faster stealth, lasts no more than 1/1.5/2 seconds, gives 0/1/2 ferocity on use. 2 ammo count, gain a new ammo count every 50/45/40 seconds (Reduced by CDR). This allows multiple jumps and jukes possible without having X seconds of "you cant touch me".

And on the topic of the Bonetooth, I honestly thought that CDR per level would have been better than AD per level. And the necklace seems like it'd be about hunting right? (+1 internets for the machete idea) Let it get a stack for a baron/dragon assist/kill since those are giant monsters. Make it focus on jump range, movement speed, and something like a chance to proc a free ferocity point. But instead of it being a set number like "get 3 trophies, get xxxxx" make it like Mejai's where the more you have stacked (up to a cap) the more you get. But still make it 1 loss per death, 1 gain per kill/assist.

For that I'd say max of 10 stacks. Add like 20 additional leap range per stack, 5 movement speed per stack, and a 10% chance to get an extra ferocity point on xxxx skill. Having no stacks won't cripple the player, and having 10 stacks wouldn't snow ball, but simply empower the player for playing well.

Again just my 2 cents. Hope it helps you find a way to fix Rengar. His kit/resource system is probably my favorite designed one.


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General Sky

Member

07-17-2013

I really really love the concept of rengar as a jungler. He's a predator after all and he ganks his prey. If you could make him viable in the jungle, I'd be a happy camper


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Crozz

Member

07-17-2013

Was thinking over about what I said about standing still for his passive to get bigger and then thought.standing still might make the move speed useless, maybe make it get bigger as long as he is in bush? Maybe standing still makes it bigger fast? Just maybes, u guys can test what you want, o and see the assassin vs bruiser and I always thought him as being able to fill one of the 2 roles, but only 1 depending on his build, never both


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HongWeiLo

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Going back through these riot posts and reading about how Rengar has little counter play is very refreshing. I'd hate for them to make a decision without being informed.


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WeissDragoon

Member

07-17-2013

Guys seriously do not alert people when he ults. He could have 200% movement speed for 30 seconds, it wouldn't change the fact that people will just see the pop up then run under tower. If the element of surprise is gone then it's absolutely pointless. Every global ult in the game goes off the ability to surprise people. Nocturne alerts people? Yes, because he gains a 2000 range dash, you only get a second of warning. You're not giving Rengar a 2000 range leap (and shouldn't) so you can't hold it to the same standards, they're getting substantially more warning due to it taking ~2 seconds for him to walk up to them in the best case scenario plus any regular wards before he stealths or pink wards while stealthed. I mean really, what do you think will be the successful application of an ult people can see coming and just walk away from? As soon as you walk into even a regular ward, the enemy knows you're there whether you're stealthed or not. What's the point of even having a stealth in that case?

I still think the correct way to give his ult counterplay is to either give it an interruptable channel time to initiate it, make it require full ferocity, or both, a very short duration Shaco-like stealth without Ferocity or an instant one like his original launch ult with full Ferocity. Other people have thought of this idea, I'm far from the first to suggest either, and they're both way better ideas than a notification that Rengar is nearby and ulted.


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Notalent

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Senior Member

07-17-2013

Yeah...a 4k range announce probably removes Rengar from the game.

I can't see him being playable if he can't use his ult to bypass wards or fast engage on a lone carry who's out of position.

Honestly, just delete Rengar and give everyone back their money if you want to do that.


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Groxxy

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Damn this thread is turning into a witchhunt... I hate mob mentalities so much.

Sorry Scarizard.