A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Khelangren

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Member

07-17-2013

Seeing as the long-duration stealth seems to be a touchy issue, why not just remove it entirely for a new mechanic?

Something like an x-second buff that gives Rengar movement speed and lets all of his attacks cause him to jump to his target for the entire duration.

This way, enemies will see him coming and have counterplay potential, but he's able to stick to whatever he's fighting for at least the duration of his ult.
It also removes some of his split-push escape ability while allowing him better ability to reposition while in a teamfight.


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Bane of Night

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khelangren View Post
Seeing as the long-duration stealth seems to be a touchy issue, why not just remove it entirely for a new mechanic?

Something like an x-second buff that gives Rengar movement speed and lets all of his attacks cause him to jump to his target for the entire duration.

This way, enemies will see him coming and have counterplay potential, but he's able to stick to whatever he's fighting for at least the duration of his ult.
It also removes some of his split-push escape ability while allowing him better ability to reposition while in a teamfight.
That would just piss people off. Can you imagine Rengar jumping around from champ to minion to champ to jungle monster back to champ? You couldn't do anything to him, that mobility would be ridiculous. I agree, it'd be REALLY fun, but it'd be broken.

And you'd never be able to get away (kind of like what akali does, but you aren't limited to 3 charges, you're limited to the number of basic attacks you can do in the x-second interval).


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Gypsy Hyena

Member

07-17-2013

I'm looking forward to these changes. Pushing him into the jungle role and giving him more depth as an assassin will hopefully stop him being played as a worse Yorick clone with a finisher, because that's incredibly boring. People are worried about the range for the ult's detection radius, but I don't see it as a huge problem - you can walk to the river bush like everyone else, then when you activate it you'll be able to jump on an enemy long before they can hide under the tower trying to stay safe til it wears off.


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HongWeiLo

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Gypsy you do realize putting him the jungle role will turn him into a worse version of Nocturne right? Unless his ultimate lasts half a minute the smartest thing to do when he does ult would be to run back to your tower as soon as you see the eyes over his head. And if you're the jungler, head to the nearest ally with an icon over their head in case they still gank at the tower.

If you think Rengar is a yorick clone then I'm not sure what game you've been playing. Rengar has to cast 5 times to heal 100 HP early game. Yorick can cast anytime to heal that much or more with one E. Yorick is all about sustain, Rengar is mostly about burst which he has to abuse bushes to do.

Also river bush is a common ward spot for the majority of us that aren't in ELO hell. And the way on the way of river bush is also a common top ward spot.

I'm not looking forward to these changes.


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Awefully Bad

Member

07-17-2013

Hello Rengar dev team. I wanted to suggest that maybe with Rengar's Q, tune down the bonus damage a lot and convert a large portion of it into bleed damage. I mean... look at the icon... it looks like it should have a bleed effect. The bleed could last for the same duration as the attack speed buff so everything is happening within the same window of time as it does currently, but this would allow healing effects to add greater counter play when available, and obviously more so during early game than late game.

Again, this fix would be to lower Rengar's early game burst by allowing the victim a chance to heal through the bleed portion of damage. He's getting the attack speed bonuses either way as well. Rengars could still triple Q (however that works since I'm only aware of double Q atm), but might be discouraged from doing so because they wouldn't get the full bleed damage. Whether you all would design that bleed damage to stack, between regular Q and ferocity Q, would have to be tested.


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Khelangren

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07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of Night View Post
That would just piss people off. Can you imagine Rengar jumping around from champ to minion to champ to jungle monster back to champ? You couldn't do anything to him, that mobility would be ridiculous. I agree, it'd be REALLY fun, but it'd be broken.

And you'd never be able to get away (kind of like what akali does, but you aren't limited to 3 charges, you're limited to the number of basic attacks you can do in the x-second interval).
Yeah, a jump on every auto would be pretty broken.

Perhaps having the jump tied to his Q - such that the next auto after activating it would cause him to jump - would be more reasonable. Depending on CDR and whether an empowered Q is used, one would probably get around 3-4 jumps during an ult.


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bl1nked

Junior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Trying to balance catching up on posts and doing actual work - a few points:

1. Please remember that the changes to Q are in testing, and that the lack of an effect on Q is placeholder. It might be returned to %AS on Q and ??? on Q2. Previously we had 'If Savagery strikes a champion below 50% life, gain an additional ferocity point' which we had some pros and cons. When judging the changes understand that the goal is to lower the burst potential of these two spells and that shifting them into tools for sustained damage is a win for Rengar's balance overall - but i don't intend to leave either part of this skill bare.

2. Some people seem to like the counterplay we're introducing to his ultimate, and some of you don't. I'm open to suggestions here - but Rengar sorely needs more counterplay on this skill for it to retain the strength it has, let alone gain more. Give me your thoughts on how'd you like to see this done.

Gonna go grab some food, but i'm at least caught up on this threads' posts.
If you are going to globally give champions a way to counterplay his ultimate then why not do the same for karthus/tf/nocture/ anyone you can deem possible that their ultimate will be successful no matter what. The changes are garbage please do not go through with them. Rengar isn't even fotm like I see no reason to change this champion.


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Gandir

Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

2. Some people seem to like the counterplay we're introducing to his ultimate, and some of you don't. I'm open to suggestions here - but Rengar sorely needs more counterplay on this skill for it to retain the strength it has, let alone gain more. Give me your thoughts on how'd you like to see this done.
Perhaps his ult could have a targeted version that only makes him invisible to ONE target. Pink wards, towers and team mates could still see him (like Eve) if he is in range but he would remain completely invisible to that one player. This would ensure that at least the primary TARGET would hear the VO and know he is within a certain range. Not sure this would fix his split pushing though, but would still give him that predator feel.


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Griiffy

Member

07-17-2013

Once you change him can you give me another refund token back so I can rid of another one of your boring tasteless champions? You guys are on the path to wreck the champ that we all love and currently, his win rate is 45%.... So yeah you better nerf him.

IF you do change him... something that would make him more fun is an e skillshot IMO. This would make leveling it up more rewarding and increases his skill cap.


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IS1134176166f12c48247ba

Junior Member

07-17-2013

What about decreasing the detection range of the ultimate on isolated targets? I know its sounds just like a Kha'zix copy but this way you still have a counterplay when in a team and it also benefits Rengar in a certain scenario.