A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Gary R Oak

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Rengar's damage is fine. Just add more counterplay to his ultimate and call it a day. If Zed & Kha can kill an ADC in 1-2 seconds then why can't rengo?


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Soulsquisher

Junior Member

07-16-2013

So the main problem I feel with Rengar as an assassin is that he has no way of repositioning himself after leaping onto his first target. Every effective assassin in League has some movement ability that allows them to quickly get in, kill their target, and slip away to wait for their next kill opportunity. I think if the bola could place a mark on the target that Rengar could leap to, it would allow him to function better as an assassin.


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Yung Jordan

Junior Member

07-16-2013

I don't know if this is a really good idea or if this idea was already said.. but maybe if rengar is in a brush for a certain amount of time he could gain a leap range boost? its like when a person leaps they have to get a running start. or maybe scale the range with the amount of time in the brush up to a cap?


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Nuclear Dragon

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
One of the issues with making the VO global is that Thrill of the Hunt itself isn't global, unlike Paranoia or Destiny. One idea i'm going to try is making Rengar's reveal radius very high - likely 4-5k - and then just playing VO for anyone within that range. So if you ult from the river heading top, midlane or the jungle might hear you - but if you ult going for bottom lane, top doesn't need to be worried from across the map.
The problem with the VO NOT being global range is that without something like Skype, it is more difficult to warn your team within a reasonable amount of time in the event that you are the only one that hears it. I would prefer the VO to be global so that it becomes a TEAM EFFORT to help everyone save each other. Otherwise, the team as a whole is FAR more likely to be confused and uncoordinated when Rengar shows up. I understand that there is a visual que for people within range on the PBE version, but I believe that a global VO would help teams react and coordinate better in response to Rengar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
We could give his ultimate Evelynn stealth detection; we can give it a lot of the warning play we're talking about here - and then we can always pump the power and impact of the spell because of it. In it's current iteration, Thrill of the Hunt lasts 12 seconds and the MS% is 30/40/50. Rengar's pretty much booking it across the map and stabbing people in the face left it right - and that's only possible because people get some warning that he's coming.
I like this idea. I'm not sure if this crossed your mind yet, but doing this will also help ensure that his R remains as an offensive spell and not a defensive one (hence all the nerfs to his ult such as increased fade time upon taking damage). I believe this will allow you to bump up the power on his ultimate immensely. As a Rengar player, I would very much appreciate a lower cooldown. As overpowered as Rengar was on release, I thoroughly enjoyed the low cooldown + maxing CDR on him and having his ultimate up often. It allows you to live the predatory experience much more often, and it is very satisfying! New counter-play just makes it better for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
On another note, how would people feel about a Bonetooth that built out of Long Sword + Hunter's Machete + 100g?
I like it. It's thematic, it increases his options, AND it opens up new goodies to incorporate into the necklace (such as things to help with jungle, or even grant the other jungle item special effects such as reduced Smite cd, SotEL true damage DoT, etc).

I would like to add that as a Rengar player, I am unhappy with how his Battle Roar functions. Allow to me explain. It's just, all the effects on his Empowered Battle Roar have different optimal times you want to use it. You want the heal from the Empowered ASAP whenever it's off cooldown to get back to top off quickest, you want the armor/mr when being focused, and you want the damage when close to enemies. To me, the ability seems to be wanting to do too much. I suggest emphasizing the ability's role as a short duration defensive ability such as Nocturne's spell-shield and removing the clutter. The other aspects, such as damage, are nice... but all the effects conflict and send a different message as to when you want to use it. If you want to keep them all, you'll probably have to shift some stuff around his kit or make his heal or armor/mr buff passives or whatnot.


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Last Spark

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Hello there @Scarizard @Wav3break . I know a lot of people has commented over here, and maybe you never read this, but here it goes.

First time i started using him was after his first nerf, so i never used him when he was "Overpowered". I started trying to play him like a bruiser, but then i noticed that i was or too squishy, and i was dealing a lot of damage, or i was tanky with moderate damage, but still lacking to teamfight properly. So i was one of the first to discover that he was a beatiful assassin
. Then you changed his Heal from % to a fixed flat per level. At first i thought it was a buff, but then i noticed that nerfed his state of tank or offtank fighter. Building health in him is making his W heal almost usless. You pushed him to be an assassin.
The Q increased duration of his AS steroid was nice, but more noticeable in jungle that in a lane.


Now you want to "change" again his gameplay, well let's analyze what you have in mind.

Propossed changes :

General
- Health Regen, Health Regen/lvl, and Health/lvl all increased
/You over nerfed his Health Regen honestly. His regen is so weak early game, that igniting him in top lane, means that you are dead, even using a pot. Also this is one of the reasons his jungle is "mediocre" for saying the least.

Unseen Predator
-Now becomes visible at the beginning of the leap, rather than midleap
/This is a huge nerf, unless you increase the speed of the leap. Otherwise, is basically giving the enemy a free "ward" because now he knows where are you even before jumping to his face. Unecessary since you are nerfing his ultimate so much.

Savagery
- Attack Speed removed (Temporary for now - planning on putting something else here)
/Wow, you want him to become a fighter with sustain damage, but you are removing his only sustain steroid. I don't see the direction of this. If you remove his AS steroid means that you want that he becomes a Tanky AD Caster, which is really sad. We already have Renkton for that role.

Ferocity Bonus: Savagery
- Damage lowered, Attack Speed lowered, Attack Speed Duration increased
/ It's fine that you lower the damage on his Double Q early game, it's toxic and lacks counterplay, but late game he needs the damage. Otherwise he is going to have a really bad time trying to kill the AP carry or the ADC. My sugestion for the ferocity bonus, is that he gains the normal AS from his Q plus armor pen for the duration of the AS. can be flat scaling, or % scaling.

Battle Roar
- Damage increased
- Cooldown decreased
- No longer grants Armor/MR - instead grants damage reduction from Physical Damage/Basic Attacks
/Increasing the power of Battle Roar is a bad idea, specially if the ability still scales off from AP. Like OnlyRengar sayed on reddit, this will only bring back the old abusive AP Rengar. How about changing his AP scaling to an AD scaling, but retaining the AP damage? So he stills deals mixed damage, but he can't abuse his AP damage. Of course, a moderate to a low AD scaling.


Ferocity Bonus: Battle Roar
- Heal unchanged
- Now deals damage based on Rengar's level
/I really thinked about the Heal, and i reached the conclusion that if you want Rengar to be more a sustained fighter that an assassin, his Heal sucks. Why? simple, you fixed his health numbers, so you dont get rewarded for having a larger HP pool. Let's put it more simple, you have 4K health by level 18 because you builded him tanky, but your Heal only recovers 400HP. My idea was that he recovers more health - fixed scaling %- but over a fixed amount of time. Just like Volibear's passive. That will change a lot his Heal, because now he is more weak to burst damage, but at the same time is rewarded for building more Health.

Bola Strike
- Damage increased
- Bonus AD Ratio increased
/Maybe is a good idea if you are making this a Skillshot, but having non-skillshot that is ranged and deals good-medium damage, can lead to people abuse on Melee Champions just like now is Q or W.

Ferocity Bonus: Bola Strike
- Now deals damage based on Rengar's level
- Root duration increased
/Just the same thoughts as above

Thrill of the Hunt
- Cooldown decreased
- Duration increased
- Movement speed increased
- Enemies will now receive a particle over their head when Rengar can see them; Additionally, Enemies will hear Voice Over on activation if they are in Rengar's sight range (roughly 1000) when he casts Thrill of the Hunt
/You are basically making him his stealth ultimate visible. Now it can't be used to gank, because basically is saying : "Hey midlane, i am here to gank you, i am at 1000 units away, go away, escape." More power overall? Pointless, because people now will just turret hug, or run away at the moment they see the icon in his head, Heck, even is more viable a non-stealth ultimate with cc reduction that what are you doing here. You mentioned "toying" with your enemy, making a mind game, on who he is gonna jump. It's already obvious. Rengar will jump on a low enemy or a squishy, there is no way you are gonna jump to his tank. If you get caught pushing the lane is your fault, not Rengar's. What i thing is more dessapointing is that if you are taking away his Q Burst, why nerf his ultimate?Making his ult trigger a global sound is cool, but impractical. His ultimate is not near Paranoia, for an example. I suggest only making him visible at the start of the leap/using an ability, not when he is near. Unless is a fixed small range.


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ASURA SMD

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyBotGame View Post
Im still scarred from AP rengar.

I think the problem is with double cast. As long as he can double cast an ability he will be OP or UP because he has so much burst that you can't react to him or he has so little sustain damage that he doesn't do anything outside of his burst.
AP rengar is still good in ARAM (:


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EspeonageTieler

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PxLAsurA View Post
AP rengar is still good in ARAM (:
hes pretty good on SR as well


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LOLGG2EASYBRO

Senior Member

07-16-2013

It sounds like the main problem riot has with rengar is his stealth+burst. So just nerf one or the other and call it a day, why nerf his ultimate AND his burst damage? Also, if you are going to alert people when rengar uses his ult, at least make the VO global, that way everyone is nervous and not sure who he's going far. Keep the visual above the champions head for the people who are in his range.


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OverpoweredSoap

Senior Member

07-16-2013

The funny thing is, every time I go into this thread, I see the +(number) get lower.

It seems Rengar mains aren't too happy about this.


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EspeonageTieler

Senior Member

07-16-2013

this whole letting ppl know hes ulting is so ****ing stupid as soon as the see taht **** they are jsut gonna back away making rengar so useless unless you make him ****ing sonic the hedgehog up in his ult