A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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KnifeLion

Senior Member

07-15-2013

All of the proposed changes worry me. Please don't Karma my kitty :C


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FabulousJeremy

Senior Member

07-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
To clarify - i'm still interested in Bonetooth being a stack item that works on kills and assists. As a trophy hunter, it's pretty key to who he is as a character and the reason it was implemented in the first place. My big issue however, is that right now it's purely a snowball item with only one really interesting augment.

I'm interested in exploring a bonetooth with less AD/stats (the 5% cdr and 10 flat armor pen) and as a tool that is more aspirational for Rengar - an item that opens up and accentuates the part of Rengar's stalking/predatory gameplay instead of just letting him kill you harder. For instance, one idea Wav3 and i have been talking about is retuning his '+25 Movement Speed' all the time to '+X% Movement Speed in Brush' - would the combination of that passive alongside the Leap Range increase or others like it make you more effective at lane-ganking? Would you want to take care to fight in the jungle instead of in the lanes? The item would still have enough stats to be worth a slot imo, but the main interest i have is with the effects and if we have an opportunity to take something that is currently a 'win-more' item and turn it into something unique for his play experience overall.
Is there a way to turn it into an upgrade system ALA Kha'Zix? If he can pick the effects he gets for every 3 stacks, then it might be a bit more worthwhile of a buy.


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INeedzAName

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Senior Member

07-15-2013

I used to play a decent amount of Rengar before he went through the constant nerfing and buffing and changing everything around, it was just too much to keep up with.


-Do you identify Rengar's playstyle as one that would be a particularly good fit in the jungle? What improvements would you like to see be made to help him out?

The only synergy Rengar has with the jungle is his ult (which you want to rework) and his lore. While it seems that he is adept at fight IN the jungle, it doesn't seem like he fits a jungler role.

Take into account his lore. He entered the league because he was searching for Kha'zix, but before that he prided himself on being the best hunter, hunting the strongest game. Incorperate this into his kit, Maybe bonus damage against weaker jungle minions? Maybe rewards like Nunu for killing the larger monsters in the jungle? Nothing finite skill wise, but just make it match his lore. Rengar is this ruthless hunter, but he is full of pride. He hunts for competition, to prove himself, not to mercilessly kill. Give him an incentive to kill jungle mobs, something that fits with his lore.

Edit: An idea I thought of, was maybe give him permanent .25 AD bonus for getting the killing blow on the 'Big" Neutral monsters. Big Wolf etc. This would encourage him to counter jungle, secure his own jungle, and to focus on smite killing monsters like Dragon/Baron. It equates to about 1AD per clear (if you factor in giving away blue buff, and then eventually red buff). Maybe have it scale based on his level? like 1-6 .25 7-12. .75 and 13-18. 1AD Again just throwing out numbers off top of my head, you guys could do the fine tuning.

-What is appealing to you about the defensive boost Rengar receives from Battle Roar? I'd like to change this from just flat Armor and Magic Resistance to something that can be situationally more powerful and makes him less 'meatwall' when he leaps on a target

Give Battle Roar a short duration AoE fear. Make it a 1 second duration buff after leaping (be it from brush or stealth ult) to use the ability to get the fear, imagine a giant hunter jumping on you from out of nowhere and then doing an intimidating roar. Would be quite frightening, that's for sure. Make the fear break on champion damage, and if its broken before full duration they have a like maybe 10% reduced attack damage?

-What types of improvements or changes would you like to see be made to Bonetooth Necklace? Ideally i'd like to see this moved away from a 'stat-stick' and embrace more unique enhancements like his 'Increases Leap Range by 150'

Rengar revel's in the trophies of his fallen challenges. That's what the necklace represents. Having the necklace shouldn't give bonus damage, it shouldn't give armor, magic resist or any stats for that matter with the exception of Attack Speed and Move speed maybe. If you think about it, you are a primal hunter, you have slain many enemies. The confidence you gain from all your trophies should translate into things like moving faster, attacking faster, jumping further.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

07-15-2013

For the record, if you were deadset of Jungle Rengar being a thing, I would like to see his W reduce the AD of damaged enemies instead of defensive buffs. It would help his jungling ability substantially without many of the other problems you would get.


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Team2Heavy4Teemo

Member

07-15-2013

Meanwhile Warwick.


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Wav3Break

Live Balance Intern

07-15-2013
3 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by N0NES OF DAMAGE View Post
Of all things, I just wish bonetooth didn't give so much free attack damage. Makes it fairly cost effective even if Rengar isn't stacking too well.
We are looking into the power of Bone Tooth Necklace and we will appropriately scale it back to reflect the cooler game play mechanics we intend to attach to it.

Though there is concern that having this kind of stacking/snowball mechanic on Rengar creates a "feast or famine" play pattern, we intend to make Bone Tooth Necklace an item that really accentuates the predator play style of Rengar and not necessarily something that is core for him to function. That being said we want to make Bone Tooth a very attractive option that most Rengar players will feel good about buying despite being behind or ahead.

Getting kills and assists is inevitable in every game and I hope to make Bone Tooth more attractive by giving it more utility on lesser amounts of stacks that help Rengar execute his play pattern of stalker and predator.


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CragBlade

Senior Member

07-15-2013

Bonetooth Necklace ideas:
- Make it have more than 4 stack benchmarks
- Make the stats it gives scale with the stacks you have so its not useful to you unless you have stacks. Currently gives 41 ad at level 18 regardless of stacks.
- Flat MS is instead percent MS increase in bushes
- I like the 14 stack bonus
- I like the leap range increase bonus
- Maybe at a certain amount of stacks it makes his W fear minions
- Maybe at a certain amount of stacks it makes his W slow
- Maybe at a certain amount of stacks it makes his Q and W stat duration longer


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Arctic Bro

Member

07-15-2013

:o Sej ult icon


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Swippinfrafes

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Senior Member

07-15-2013

I'll give this a shot before I go to bed. Forgive me if I don't make sense, it's 3:30 in the morning. Might come back later.

Do you identify Rengar's playstyle as one that would be a particularly good fit in the jungle? What improvements would you like to see be made to help him out?
Rengar screams predator. That's his fantasy fulfilment. Predators (both the sci-fi franchise kind and the ones in nature) often rely on ambushing, outsmarting and overwhelming their opponent with tools specially designed for them to get a clean kill. Incidentally, those traits are very integral to the jungler mindset, whether you are ganking or counter-jungling. If Rengar could be made into a "terror of the jungle" type role for early game while still being the "Stabcat" that annihilates squishies during the midgame and teamfight phase, that would be ideal for me at least.

What is appealing to you about the defensive boost Rengar receives from Battle Roar? As some others have said, Battle Roar has the feel of more of an "intimidation" ability than a "I'm tankier now!" ability. What I'd suggest is to reduce the range on it, but make enemies affected by Battle Roar deal less damage to Rengar. It keeps that intimidation factor of being a giant lion with a knife the size of my forearm, while still fulfilling that utility role of not-being-blown-up-immediately-when-I-exit-stealth. This would also (possibly?) make his jungle less completely excruciating. Seriously, I nearly die to Red almost every time with full armor seals and appropriate masteries. I'm probably just bad. Anyway, moving on...

What types of improvements or changes would you like to see be made to Bonetooth Necklace?
I'd agree with you on making Bonetooth less about pure stats and more about making him the Rengaringest Rengar he can be, while still balancing the tiers. Perhaps it could grant auxiliary effects on Ferocity-enhanced spells, or increase the reveal range on his ult.

Or maybe, since you're making his ult being used known to his enemy, a tier would make the sound softer as he's further away but ramp up in volume until he's about to pounce.

I'll be back later today, my brain is mush. Thanks for the thread, Scarizard! I'm a big fan of Rengar and can't wait to break out the catnip for my favourite Feline of Fatality.


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

07-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
one idea Wav3 and i have been talking about is retuning his '+25 Movement Speed' all the time to '+X% Movement Speed in Brush' - would the combination of that passive alongside the Leap Range increase or others like it make you more effective at lane-ganking? Would you want to take care to fight in the jungle instead of in the lanes?
I don't like how he could use that to run away like Nidalee. Make it only apply when he's moving towards champions.