Let me first start off by saying, Rengar is my favorite champion. I absolutely love his style, and it looks like Riot is leaving his style in-tact, which I couldn't be happier about. Onto my opinions here, and I'll keep'em brief and logical.
Rengar having a VO when he ults
This, thematically, makes a lot of sense. Rengar's ultimate is THRILL of the hunt. He has a battle roar. It fits his style to exhibit a loud roar of this nature when he goes on the prowl. From a balance standpoint, I know a lot of other Rengar fans will disagree,...But I'm okay with it. Them knowing you're ulting, from a jungle standpoint, doesn't help them much if you're barreling towards them , getting ready to pounce. However, it DOES add counterplay. In doing this, Riot will be able to give him more strength in other places in his kit, like his MS buff on his ultimate, a perfect compensation for this preemptive warning given to the enemies. Now, he can STILL gank with it, but it's not as unfair to be pounced on like that. The "I couldn't have done anything to stop that," moments really do suck, at least I'd assume. So, allinall, it makes a lot of sense. I'm happy with these changes.
THIS is my main point. PLEASE. PLEASE RIOT. I beg of you. MAKE JUNGLE RENGAR VIABLE AGAIN. I cannot beg and plead enough for this. I'll post every day if I need to, I really want Rengar to be a viable jungler. I'v talked to SEVERAL other Rengar fans, and a majority agree, they want to jungle the cat, too. Please Riot, test Rengar as a jungler. If changes need to be made to transfer power to help his jungling, so be it, but he IS a jungler after all. I'll add a few specific points on WHY he doesn't work in the jungle.
1. Rengar is a snowballer and is strong early game. In the jungle, he can't capitalize on it nearly as much. Apparently, you're aiming to make him less snow-bally. So, we're moving on.
2. Rengar's pre-6 ganks are terrible, making him unable to snowball early, which he MUST do. He CAN'T get into mid lane whatsoever unless they're stupidly overextended and his top/bot ganks are very questionable. This is because of two factors. One, his burst isn't that great, because it has a wasted stat, his attack speed boost. It really doesn't help, because an attack speed boost implies you'll get more than 2-3 autoattacks off during a gank regardless. You can't make them sit still to enjoy your AS boost without your Ebola's snare, which if you use, you lose the damage nuke. It's a lose lose situation for him. Your laners may provide the CC (Which restricts when he can be picked), but then you're faced with a NEW problem to restrict him even further. Second, if the laners simply shy away from the jungle bush, you're EVEN MORE limited in options pre-6. Now, you can't gank mid lane, and must do an in-lane gank top or bot lane. This is somewhat alleviated by leaping to an enemy minion then performing the gank, but that's ONLY if the lane is pushed perfectly so that their minions are within leap range, the bush isn't warded AND the enemy is reasonably close to the minion. Until level 6, realistically, that's your only three options. Lane gank top, lane gank bot, clear the jungle until level 6. That's not enough.
3. That's too restrictive for someone who MUST get an early kill to secure a decent mid/late game. Here's why THAT'S the case. The jungle gives next to no gold, and assassins happen to need a LOT of gold to do their job. So, Rengar MUST gank. This, compounded with the fact that he's strong early game but can't use it in the jungle as effectively AND he can only do in-lane ganks top or in-lane ganks bot before level 6, means that he HAS TO GET a gank off before level six, but has EXTREMELY limited means of pulling off said gank. If he simply clears to level 6, he's already VERY behind everyone else and will have a tough time ganking without a tanky CC lanes. Even then, it's iffy. He can do it, but that leads me to my final point.
4. Why jungle Rengar? You'v successfully defeated every single purpose in using him. In the jungle,...He's a snowballer that can't snowball, he's an early game champion that can't assassinate until level 6, and he's an assassin, meaning he's VERY gold hungry, and in the jungle he has very LITTLE gold without ganks, that which he cannot likely preform. Even if he does which is almost absurd at this point due to how many factors are working against him, it's still less helpful than a tanky jungler who gives the kills to their laner to snowball them, as tanks require substantially less gold to perform their job. After a kill, he's still not going to snowball like Rengar would in-lane, because in the jungle, he starts off behind. This jungle assassin budget deficit goes double for Rengar, who all-ins the enemy Carry then dies successfully, or dies and is useless to the team because he failed. In lane, he gets more guaranteed gold AND has a higher kill potential early game that he can snowball off from. Jungle Rengar just doesn't have that. In fact, he's downright undesirable from a jungle standpoint right now.
I'm no Rengar player but I've played against him enough times that I feel my 2 cents isn't totally useless.
I think you ought to consider adding some tenacity to Rengar's kit, perhaps as a reward from Bonetooth stacks, or if the ultimate is ever reworked as a passive to it. This would make all of his roles (carry-diver, pusher, ganker) more effective and more rewarding, without giving him stats that are WTFWHEREDIDMYFACEGO-esque. Passive tenacity would keep him slightly more relevant in a fight without bushes while not creating a situation in which the opponent feels his play is uncounterable.
And something about shaking off CC just seems so natural to a hunter/predator. Ask Irelia.
I think some of the proposed changes below would make Rengar more viable without making him either extremely overpowered or instagibbing as he is. Please note that I wouldn't be giving most damage-connected numbers since it's not my business.
Every 10 seconds, Rengar's next basic attack will cause him to leap to his target. Entering the bush or stealth resets the cooldown.
Basically it's to make sure Rengar can actually go around being kited hard while not making him abuse the case.
Savagery: Working as proposed by Riot with a jungle variation:
IF Savagery is used on a monster, it's cooldown is reduced to one second but it grants a debuff that makes Savagery unable to generate ferocity for (Q's cooldown). The debuff will not prolong itself with multiple jungle usages. If used on a non-monster, Savagery enters a shortened cooldown mode (reset when debuff ends).
Allowing a faster clear without making Q too strong.
Battle Roar: Leaving the damage component as it is, I've been considering if this would be it:
Rengar roars, causing his enemies to be marked, increasing damage taken. Every 1.5 seconds, the mark checks if the enemy was combating with Rengar and if he was not, Rengar's damage is further increased versus this target by a percentage.
Since his Battle Roar is not to keep his free defensive benefits and is supposed to make you fight, why not make it actually benefit Rengar for both skirmishes and all-ins?
Bola Strike: Reducing base damage and increasing ratio would keep it in line with other abilities while increasing it's damage will just cause all Rengars to max this ability first.
Thrill of the Hunt: Riot's changes are cool IF his ultimate will not give a personal warning, since a global one would be better. With a personal warning this makes Rengar's ultimate more likely to be used as an escape - not as an all-in facemelt as it is right now on live.
Proposed Ferocity changes if the current ones don't really work out:
Savagery: Additionally resets Unseen Predator's cooldown.
Battle Roar: Rengar strikes fear with his fierce roar, fearing every damaged enemy for a very short duration (could be as short as 0.3 seconds, just to give him some real teamfight presence aside from being a carry destroyer.
Bola Strike - KICK:
Rengar leaps onto his target instead, knocking it down for 1-1.5 seconds, effectively stunning it.
I know granting all the changes would make him a powerhouse so it's just pure brainstorming in case you guys run out of ideas !
Rengar is one of my favorite champs, so I would like to put in my 2 cents. Firstly is that his jungle most definitely needs a buff, everytime i go in there i end up chugging all my pots before my first clear, and cant even gank because im so low.
His bonetooth is good, and I usually buy it when i can get it early enough, but i think of it more like a gp5 item, good to hang on to for a while, but when my build fills up, i will sell it for another dps item (bork, hydra, w/e i havnt bought yet). So while it is good, even with max stacks, it doesn't feel like i should keep it over a 3k+ item later on.
His top lane is pretty strong imo, the only ppl that give me problems as rengar are the really tanky champs that build big armor items right away to negate a lot of my dmg (j4, nasus, malph,shen, building wardens mail into a randuins or something), or tricky champs like lee sin who can disengage and sustain better than me with a vamp scepter. Any champ even remotely squishy will just be added to my killing spree, its great.
I definitely feel his ult could use a change tho, When u get high cdr on rengar like i do, his ult cd is ridiculously low for how good it is. I can just wait around river or in a bush in their jungle, and as soon as my ult is up i pop it, see who is alone (or who i can instagib and just walk away from the other guy), and do my work. Go to a jungle camp, heal to full, then my ulti is up again to start prowling again. If i use my ult, and find that the enemy team isnt even in range, or are clumped together in a big grp and i have to back off, its not even a big deal, cause 50 seconds later i will have it up again.
And pushing towers.... omagawd. Get hydra and just push top or bot all day, if they dont send a tank or a few squishes to deal with me, bye bye tower. Oh you caught me out of position did you, I will just ulti, wait for everyone to separate trying to find where im going, and instagib some1 who walked off by their lonesome. Its like the only counterplay is vision wards all over the place, because just having oracles isnt enough considering that most champs with an oracles against an even remotely fed rengar are just gonna die.
So if you guys are going to buff him, be very careful, because he is already really strong in a lot of ways.
Active on Bone Tooth: Allows him to leap without being in a brush on active.
The stacks, how about something other than just killing champions. Dragon and Barron seem like good things. 3 Stacks on Dragon kills, 5 on Barron.
Tenacity, on a jungler? No way?! This needs to happen.
The item should just become part of Rengar's passive once it's fully stacked and he has a few more kills on it. And the active of the bone tooth just happens once every few seconds like a passive cooldown.
No offense, but it really doesn't sound like you guys know which direction Rengar should be taken in, or even where you personally want to take him. These scattershot changes reek of homogenization, and I don't like it at all. Making him more of a duelist? Taking away his ability to gib people?
...you guys do realize the ridiculous damage Zed, Kha'zix, and even Talon can do in 2-3 seconds, right? The amount that Rengar's double-Q does just doesn't feel OP to me. /shrug
You need to give him better sticking power if you want to lower his damage but keep his "HOLY SHT" feel when he jumps on someone. He has no escape, no gap closer (without brush) and no real defenses. If his damage is lowered, he needs to be compensated... but this is the kind of whack-a-mole balance that I find incredibly uncreative. Why not put some effort into finding a way to make Ferocity choices interesting? (coughEmpoweredBolaStrikecough)
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