A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Parapsychology

Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanities Eye View Post
http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Rengar
just to Clarify on that Bruiser Rengar status

The wins are when Rengar is built as an assassin. Strong evidence.


As for the guy saying Rengar is confusing in his spells. Well, W doesn't make Rengar tanky, it allows him to out trade, W only lasts for 3 Seconds.. look at a real tanks buff ability like leona or nautilus, their innate tanking spells last a decent amount of time... Rengar's doesnt. So for people saying Rengar is a bruiser are just building him wrong. For people who are building him as a tank, you are building him wrong, why not just play an ACTUAL tank?

Riot has Rengar as a primary assassin. There is no argument to be made he is a bruiser. If you want a high mobility spell-reliant bruiser GO PLAY RIVEN. Rengar is a gib champion. he is the only champion in a game that has a specific item that is strictly made for GETTING KILLS. Bruisers and tanks don't get kills.. they hold lines. Assassins and carries are what get the kills in this game.

Stop trying to advocate the ruining of an already underpowered champion.

My rework would be like this... Leave Q as is, take out stat buffs from W and turn into a shield or a minor fear, E turns into a skillshot that activates passive if the target was hit (so he can leap to target). This gives him all the mobility he needs and room to make nice plays for escaping or chasing. Ultimate.. lower cooldown. maybe a 75/60/45 CD on ult?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

arwingflyer98

Member

12-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
My rework would be like this... Leave Q as is, take out stat buffs from W and turn into a shield or a minor fear, E turns into a skillshot that activates passive if the target was hit (so he can leap to target). This gives him all the mobility he needs and room to make nice plays for escaping or chasing. Ultimate.. lower cooldown. maybe a 75/60/45 CD on ult?
Honestly, this isn't an unreasonable request. I think this would keep the old Rengar that everyone enjoys as well as gives Rengar a bit more opportunity to shine. I would really love to see this happen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

12-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
The wins are when Rengar is built as an assassin. Strong evidence.


As for the guy saying Rengar is confusing in his spells. Well, W doesn't make Rengar tanky, it allows him to out trade, W only lasts for 3 Seconds.. look at a real tanks buff ability like leona or nautilus, their innate tanking spells last a decent amount of time... Rengar's doesnt. So for people saying Rengar is a bruiser are just building him wrong. For people who are building him as a tank, you are building him wrong, why not just play an ACTUAL tank?

Riot has Rengar as a primary assassin. There is no argument to be made he is a bruiser. If you want a high mobility spell-reliant bruiser GO PLAY RIVEN. Rengar is a gib champion. he is the only champion in a game that has a specific item that is strictly made for GETTING KILLS. Bruisers and tanks don't get kills.. they hold lines. Assassins and carries are what get the kills in this game.

Stop trying to advocate the ruining of an already underpowered champion.

My rework would be like this... Leave Q as is, take out stat buffs from W and turn into a shield or a minor fear, E turns into a skillshot that activates passive if the target was hit (so he can leap to target). This gives him all the mobility he needs and room to make nice plays for escaping or chasing. Ultimate.. lower cooldown. maybe a 75/60/45 CD on ult?
I agree, but if it was a shield, they'd better make it look Golden!! Like really bright too I want dat thing to shine if it was THE DOOR WAY TO HEAVENN


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Radosmoi

Junior Member

12-17-2013

Is it me but, if Kha'zix can insta-burst someone squishy.. why can't Rengar?
I don't know how to play kha and stuff, but ive seen a lot kha's just go in a fight and kills someone and jump away with the e passive or ult,
So why remove rengars burst? if rengar cannot kill someone in time before his target notices, the targets team would just cc him to death.
Kha has much moar escape tools and gap closers, he has 2 slows, 3 brief ms increase, and a jump from anywhere he wants, while rengar can only bola and a ult that can be delayed for a reaaaalllyyy reaaallly long time.
hey Rengar gets 40 armour and 40 mr, thats nice
hey Kha'Zix gets a 50% damage reduction shield thing-majhongy D:


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Artifictional

Senior Member

12-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey y'all -

So i wanted to talk to you guys about our good ol' Stabtabby, Rengar. Classick handed off to me his initial refactor of Rengar that he had begun posting about a while back, but internally it was shown that while it certainly buffed him and fixed some issues with his design, more work needed to be done.

What our playtests revealed is that preserving the predatory feel by making his ultimate stronger is all well and good, but proved pretty abusive when it came to his burst potential. In a way, Rengar is a champion that has always been defined by his abuse-cases, either in TripleQ assassinating someone in less than a second from stealth, or double tap W + DFG pentakilling teams from stealth with AP, or simply stacking health + spirit visage splitpushing waves, then escaping from nearly any sort of chase. We've come a long way from the latter of these, but if the Pridestalker is to see any sort of return to glory we'll need to iron out some of the abusive kinks and round him out as a whole.

We're sticking with the direction that Classick originally outlined in his post here (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...71487#37371487) - namely reducing the frustration/toxicity of Thrill of the Hunt (Ultimately allowing us to buff the spell in other ways) and driving clarity in his Ferocity choices by having the effects scale with champion level rather than rank of skill. Our other goal is to retain his dueling nature and strength in ambushes and skirmishes, but lower his instagib potential in favor of deferring his up-front damage into longer engagement windows. While he'll still be a threat, changing him to a sustained damage pattern allows us to pump more power into his other abilities/ferocity bonuses and make his ability set as a whole stronger instead of the current 'stabcat on AD carry and one or both of us will die' pattern that makes Rengar so frustrating and binary to play as and against on Live.

So with that out of the way, here are some questions i'd like to get your thoughts on -

-Do you identify Rengar's playstyle as one that would be a particularly good fit in the jungle? What improvements would you like to see be made to help him out?

-What is appealing to you about the defensive boost Rengar receives from Battle Roar? I'd like to change this from just flat Armor and Magic Resistance to something that can be situationally more powerful and makes him less 'meatwall' when he leaps on a target

-What types of improvements or changes would you like to see be made to Bonetooth Necklace? Ideally i'd like to see this moved away from a 'stat-stick' and embrace more unique enhancements like his 'Increases Leap Range by 150'

These questions are really just to begin the discussion - i'm certainly looking for thoughts/feedback on a variety of topics, but these are a few that we've been talking about on a higher level that have less of a set direction currently. Wav3break, one of our Live Design Interns is working closely with me on this project and will be monitoring this thread alongside me and will help to soak feedback and answer questions y'all may have.

Without further ado: Rengar! I choose you!

Here are the changes (Without numbers, as they are subject to change/tuning as always) that we've been testing so far:

Updated 9/24 - updates in bold


Bonetooth Necklace
??? AD, ??? AD/lvl
Recipe: Hunter's Machete + Long Sword + 100g
PASSIVE: 20% Increased damage to monsters

3 Stacks: Rengar gains Flat Movement Speed while out of combat, or while in brush

6 Stacks: Leap range increased

9 Stacks: Rengar gains %MS for 2s after leaping

14 Stacks: Rengar does not lose his Thrill of the Hunt bonus speed upon activating Stealth


General
-Base Health Regen increased
-Health Regen per Level increased
-Health per Level increased
-All Ferocity Bonuses are now scaled with Champion Level (Similar to his Heal) rather than with the rank of the ability.

Unseen Predator
-Rengar now becomes visible at the beginning of his leap, rather than mid-leap.

Savagery
-Cooldown decreased
-Damage slightly reduced
-Attack Speed Bonus slightly increased

Ferocity Effect: Savagery
-Damage Reduced
-No longer grants Attack Speed
-Now Grants 3 Ferocity

Battle Roar
-Damage increased
-Cooldown decreased

Ferocity Effect: Battle Roar
-No longer grants Armor/MR (Base Battle Roar still does)

Bola Strike
-Now a skillshot
-Range greatly increased
-AD Ratio increased
-Slow no longer scales with rank
-Slow no longer decays over 2.5s

Ferocity Effect: Bola Strike
-Root Duration increased

Thrill of the Hunt *REMADE*
-No longer immediately stealths Rengar
-Now consumes all Ferocity on cast (Each 1 Ferocity consumed this way increases the Duration of Thrill of the Hunt by 1 second)
-Rengar gains Movement Speed, Vision, and Ferocity Generation while in Thrill of the Hunt and his first basic attack will cause him to leap.
-After a brief delay, Rengar may recast Thrill of the Hunt to stealth for a few seconds at the cost of Thrill of the Hunt's bonus speed
-Cooldown decreased
-Movement Speed% increased
-Duration increased

END MAIN POST---------------------------------------------------------
So, you just want to ruin rengar by turning him into yet another generic tanky dps bruiser? No thanks riot, that's a refund ill weasel out of player support.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Parapsychology

Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwingflyer98 View Post
Honestly, this isn't an unreasonable request. I think this would keep the old Rengar that everyone enjoys as well as gives Rengar a bit more opportunity to shine. I would really love to see this happen.

I'm really glad to hear positive feedback on this matter. I would rather have us come to some agreement with riot as a community of concerned Rengar players for a remake than to have him changed into something undesired.

So here's an edited version of my own Rengar Remake


Savagery - Unchanged - however.. if riot does decide to implement "Q-Train" project , I think Rengar should have a passive added to Thrill of the Hunt (continue reading)

Battle Roar - Rengar lets out a battle roar, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies and fearing targets in range for .2/.4/.6/.8/1.0 Seconds. Each rank increases the range of this spell slightly.

Bola Strike - Rengar throws a bola at his target, dealing physical damage and slowing it for 2.5 seconds. If a champion is hit, Rengar activates unseen predator for his next basic attack.

Thrill of the Hunt - Unchanged mechanics. Cooldown changed - 60/60/60 seconds,

but if Q'Train is added

New passive on ultimate:
Everytime Rengar scores a champion kill, he permanently increases his attack damage by 1/2/3.


My reasons for these changes?

Well if Q'Train is implemented, I feel Rengar's overall stability as a champion in league can be reestablished BUT at the cost of some very unique snowballing potential he possesses... adding some passive damage potential gains really opens that door back up without ripping the door off it's hinges so to speak. Battle roar.. is a ROAR! This change will add some very unique scaling potential if bruiser rengar is to remain in meta while still further excelling his assassin potential for quick in and outs. Also adding some really cool lore aspects. Thrill of the hunt.. the name of the ultimate speaks for itself

Any feedback, summoners?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HeWhoHates

Member

12-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Just a heads up - gonna be focused on making tweaks that jive with preseason (especially on BTN) and likely making a new thread cause this one's suuuuper long already.

Hope you guys get that thread up soon, I need some news. I know Rengar's gonna get a rework regardless, I just hope he is well rounded and not just forced into the jungle, hope he can top lane as well.

Also new SKIN Idea. Rengo, vietnam theme. Tiger striped fur with a headband and ripped tiger striped shorts and a giant combat knife. lol, awesome.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Steamcario

Senior Member

12-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
The wins are when Rengar is built as an assassin. Strong evidence.


As for the guy saying Rengar is confusing in his spells. Well, W doesn't make Rengar tanky, it allows him to out trade, W only lasts for 3 Seconds.. look at a real tanks buff ability like leona or nautilus, their innate tanking spells last a decent amount of time... Rengar's doesnt. So for people saying Rengar is a bruiser are just building him wrong. For people who are building him as a tank, you are building him wrong, why not just play an ACTUAL tank?

Riot has Rengar as a primary assassin. There is no argument to be made he is a bruiser. If you want a high mobility spell-reliant bruiser GO PLAY RIVEN. Rengar is a gib champion. he is the only champion in a game that has a specific item that is strictly made for GETTING KILLS. Bruisers and tanks don't get kills.. they hold lines. Assassins and carries are what get the kills in this game.

Stop trying to advocate the ruining of an already underpowered champion.
This is all wrong.

W makes rengar tanky. timing double casts correctly gives you 6 seconds of big armor/mr steroid.

why not play an "actual" tank? no tanks are as strong in lane as rengar except maybe shyvana. with just a trinity rengar deals heaps of damage.

rengar doesn't have to get kills to get bonetooth stacks, assists add them too, so he adds on stacks faster by going in face first and dying but getting 4 assists as opposed to suicide diving someone to maybe have one more stack after probably dying.

Rengar is not underpowered, he's one of the best champions in the game and tank rengar is how he's played in pro level. his W is already getting nerfed on PBE iirc. knowing how strong bruiser rengar already is, I imagine his numbers will be very bad once the rework is done... since they're actually giving him a bruiser kit now. there's no way rengar can be balanced with W on a lower cd and higher damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GunzRX

Senior Member

12-19-2013

I had a longer reply this garbage software messed up all I have to say leave a message he is he's finegoogle voice isn't that accurate but f*** you riot


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GunzRX

Senior Member

12-19-2013

Please just leave him alone. Every rengar player knows it doesn't even matter if you win. Only thing is going and hunting carry or khazix. Why don't you just leave it alone he won't make bronze diamond he's so fun and at this rate you guys will destroy your game by next season. It's already happening.