A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Kane213

Senior Member

11-14-2013

I mainly play rengar for split pushing. Just concerned how well he push down towers after the changes. No more Attack speed on the FQ. thats sad. Triple Q without ultimate sounds cool. Can't really comment until we have real numbers to work with the math.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane213 View Post
I mainly play rengar for split pushing. Just concerned how well he push down towers after the changes. No more Attack speed on the FQ. thats sad. Triple Q without ultimate sounds cool. Can't really comment until we have real numbers to work with the math.
Riot has stated they want to limit his split pushing ability, cause being able to down 3 towers while your team fights the enemy team is a bit ridiculous lol Yes I'll miss it as well, but I understand why they plan on getting rid of it.

In return they plan on upping his laning ability, jungle clear speed, and his teamfight capabilities. If they manage to pull off all of those then I'm fine with the trade off personally.


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Gigakail

Senior Member

11-14-2013

lmao i was scrolling down this and looked at the downvotes then just started laughing my ass off


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Snowsef

Member

11-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARTAN 111 View Post
If it's a skillshot, it should be able to pass through minions to mess with the enemies' minds, plus when they feel safe behind minions it makes it scarier for them after you land one. Huge buff to his bola yes but his Q was the problem, trust me I don't think it will cause any harm to the community, I believe it's the buff Rengar truly needs,as well as the one he rightfully deserves.
I'm going to tell you right now that his bola is great for last hitting, so it should definitely NOT be able to pass through minions.

PLEASE READ, I'm sure many rengar players will agree.

I'm not sure I like this rework. It seems like a pretty huge nerf. You guys should know that anyone who plays rengar loves his assassination potential, as it is the most fun part about him. So why take it away?? He's not a foolproof champion either. He needs to roll fairly hard and be played by a competent player to actually have the potential to destroy in fights. If he gets behind at all he's not very good and will get beaten by a lot of other fighters or assassins.

TL;DR I feel Rengar is in a perfectly balanced spot right now as he can do very well if played right, but his killing potential is limited to the skill of the player (unlike someone like Trynd). Rengar is very high risk - high reward.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0ws3f View Post
ITL;DR I feel Rengar is in a perfectly balanced spot right now as he can do very well if played right, but his killing potential is limited to the skill of the player (unlike someone like Trynd). Rengar is very high risk - high reward.
I have to completely disagree with you.

I mean Rengar is FORCED into the role of an assassin even though he has the full kit of a fighter/bruiser because his abilities and base stats have been nerfed SO HARD in the past that going any other route makes him COMPLETELY useless!

So yeah, he can do that ONE thing that we all love doing, just before he gets auto squished as well. And personally I'd love not automatically dying every single team fight whether I manage to get that one kill or not.

Also due to all his base stats and unempowered abilities being so hugely nerfed he is barely viable in top lane at all, and only against a few champs by abusing the bushes, and almost every popular top laner counters him HARD.

Then on top of that his jungle clear time is mediocre, sure it's not the worst and no mana makes it better, but he takes SO much damage from monster camps early on and him having THE LOWEST health regen in the entire game makes it so he can't last in the jungle for too long cause the heal on W against the larger camps is actually worse for you then just double Qing them for the attack speed to kill it faster (that's been tested).

Sure yeah he has his ups, but they're just SO FEW in comparison to all the major issues he has that it does not weigh out at all.

Here's an in depth look at Rengar, it's a 17min long vid by ExamplePrime and it pretty much covers his issues and why they exist. Also why he has to be changed. I will miss one shotting squishy adcs ofc, but I'd prefer a more balanced and more viable champion overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEgkZjrNac


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Still want to hear about the how the new jungle changes and new gold income items will effect Rengar's rework for the preseason seeing as how this was initially created during S3 and now with all these big changes and potential nerfs coming i would like some insight.

Maybe keep the unnecessary ranting down if you don't know what you're talking about.


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Pocketbomb

Senior Member

11-15-2013

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Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
I like the vid thanks for the link.


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Snowsef

Member

11-15-2013

@Vicarious117,

Fair enough, we all have our opinions. I personally think he's fine right now though, and as long as you're not initiating with your ult, you shouldn't die in every teamfight. I guess I just like his current playstyle, although I guess I shouldn't talk until the rework is actually released

I definitely understand what you mean about him being forced into playing as an assassin though. He is useless if built any other way, since his innate damage is so low without many damage items.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
I have to completely disagree with you.

I mean Rengar is FORCED into the role of an assassin even though he has the full kit of a fighter/bruiser because his abilities and base stats have been nerfed SO HARD in the past that going any other route makes him COMPLETELY useless!

So yeah, he can do that ONE thing that we all love doing, just before he gets auto squished as well. And personally I'd love not automatically dying every single team fight whether I manage to get that one kill or not.

Also due to all his base stats and unempowered abilities being so hugely nerfed he is barely viable in top lane at all, and only against a few champs by abusing the bushes, and almost every popular top laner counters him HARD.

Then on top of that his jungle clear time is mediocre, sure it's not the worst and no mana makes it better, but he takes SO much damage from monster camps early on and him having THE LOWEST health regen in the entire game makes it so he can't last in the jungle for too long cause the heal on W against the larger camps is actually worse for you then just double Qing them for the attack speed to kill it faster (that's been tested).

Sure yeah he has his ups, but they're just SO FEW in comparison to all the major issues he has that it does not weigh out at all.

Here's an in depth look at Rengar, it's a 17min long vid by ExamplePrime and it pretty much covers his issues and why they exist. Also why he has to be changed. I will miss one shotting squishy adcs ofc, but I'd prefer a more balanced and more viable champion overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEgkZjrNac
I disagree completely. He's SUPPOSED TO BE an assassin, so naturally he does best at that. This is like complaining that Talon can't be a bruiser. Well of course it's not as good, he's designed around assassinating. Rengar is a hunter, not a knight in shining armor. He isn't supposed to take focus and survive. He works WONDERS in a pick comp, for example. He can pick anyone who's out of position then escape, plus he has lifesteal to be great at 1v1. He can also splitpush, as he is both excellent at 1v1, AND he can escape with his ultimate. He has plenty of viable roles, and the rework isn't necessary.


Now, I'm NOT SAYING that the changes are bad. I'm saying they weren't as necessary as you implied. However, due to the fact that Riot trimmed the bushes again, I'm mildly concerned. However, his Q chaining could help with clears, and if his ultimate's CD is lower as I believe it is, it could be fine. In truth, NONE OF US truly know if the changes are a net buff or nerf until they're released and we try them. However, IF RENGAR CAN NO LONGER BE A SUCCESSFUL GLASS CANNON ASSASSIN, his true identity will be forever lost, in my opinion. He's a hunter, and should be able to act like one. I'm fine with other builds being viable, but this one really needs to stay.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
I disagree completely. He's SUPPOSED TO BE an assassin, so naturally he does best at that. This is like complaining that Talon can't be a bruiser. Well of course it's not as good, he's designed around assassinating. Rengar is a hunter, not a knight in shining armor. He isn't supposed to take focus and survive. He works WONDERS in a pick comp, for example. He can pick anyone who's out of position then escape, plus he has lifesteal to be great at 1v1. He can also splitpush, as he is both excellent at 1v1, AND he can escape with his ultimate. He has plenty of viable roles, and the rework isn't necessary.


Now, I'm NOT SAYING that the changes are bad. I'm saying they weren't as necessary as you implied. However, due to the fact that Riot trimmed the bushes again, I'm mildly concerned. However, his Q chaining could help with clears, and if his ultimate's CD is lower as I believe it is, it could be fine. In truth, NONE OF US truly know if the changes are a net buff or nerf until they're released and we try them. However, IF RENGAR CAN NO LONGER BE A SUCCESSFUL GLASS CANNON ASSASSIN, his true identity will be forever lost, in my opinion. He's a hunter, and should be able to act like one. I'm fine with other builds being viable, but this one really needs to stay.
His true identity was never supposed to be an assassin though.

Just watch the video I linked. Was going to just repeat it all over again but I decided if you can't watch the vid then you prob wouldn't care what I'd have to say anyways and I'd have just wasted my time.

So watch the vid and learn why he's not supposed to be an assassin yet is stuck with that as his ONLY role, or don't watch it and forever be in the dark on who and what Rengar is supposed to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0ws3f View Post
@Vicarious117,

Fair enough, we all have our opinions. I personally think he's fine right now though, and as long as you're not initiating with your ult, you shouldn't die in every teamfight. I guess I just like his current playstyle, although I guess I shouldn't talk until the rework is actually released

I definitely understand what you mean about him being forced into playing as an assassin though. He is useless if built any other way, since his innate damage is so low without many damage items.
Personally I think you have to start with your ult cause it's the only way to get off your triple Q to get that insane one shotting burst everyone's scared of losing lol

Not too mention you have a 3 sec delay on your ult if taking damage where you can't do anything or else cancel your ult before you stealth anyway, so if you're getting focused you die before using it anyway.

However I do see in some situations where that works. For example I like to get GA then run in first and take the focus, then ult right before I "die," so when you get back up you're already stealthed and NO ONE has any idea you're even still there. Those are the most satisfying one shots LOL