A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Dusksaur

Senior Member

10-14-2013

karma T_T


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TheHiddenBlades

Senior Member

10-14-2013

Riot, me and many other people bought renga because he was a good assassin, and we like assassin playstyle. By reworking him into a bruiser many buyers will be very disappointed and regret their purchase. All rengar fans play him while he is still fun


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GranspearZX

Senior Member

10-14-2013

I could still see myself playing him with the intended changes. *I* bought him because the idea of jumping out of the brush and knifing people was fun. That much doesn't seem to have changed.

So when you say 'all Rengar fans'... *cough*


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

10-14-2013

I'm a little scared I'm not gonna lie, although I believe this rework will make skilled Rengar players a little better (if you're fast enough with ability mashing that is).


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Stealthwolf667

Junior Member

10-14-2013

Alright riot. You are making too big of a change here, this isn't Rengar anymore. Its some new champion.

One of the best aspects of Rengar - being one of the most fun and most unique - is his stealth ult. People who complain about his ult being too OP may be true, but there are easy ways to counter his ult. All you have to do is have stealth vision, armor in the preferable form of thornmail, frozen heart or randuin's, or banshee's veil. Or maybe buff banshee's to block 2 abilities. Or create another item that blocks an ability. There are many ways you can deal with Rengar than just resort to nerfing and, in the end, overhauling him because people simply don't know how to deal with him. If you take away his ability to stealth for his ult, you are taking away a VERY big part of what makes rengar exactly that - rengar.

I also dont agree with the switch in his Q from a focus on AD to AS. The only way rengar can burst his enemies is his Q. Other than that, he really does not do much damage from his other abilities. Savagery is Rengar's damage. That's it. I can see the point of lessening the damage for increased AS in the jungle, but even then the switch does not provide enough of a benefit that I can see compared to his original damage-oriented q. The burst from his q can be a bit outrageous when your team's ADC is there one nanosecond and gone the next. There are remedies to this, as I have stated above, and not only that but bursting a single champion down is really Rengar's only current role in team fights. If you were hoping these changes would increase his role in team fights, i'm not seeing much of a change. Rengar's kit is oriented towards taking down a single target, even with these changes. All you have done is make it harder for rengar to do this, you haven't opened any doors to change his role. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say you have closed some doors that were already open by inacting these changes. For example, changing his e to a skill shot. Rengar already has a very limited amount of what he can do in team fights, and if you switch his e from a secure target to a skill shot you are continuing to reduce his already weak role. Now, for laning, I wouldn't be too opposed to nerfing the damage of his q early game or something along those lines. Rengar has a very strong early game, and is very strong compared to other champions in the laning phase. There are champions that can beat him as well, but I see the point of reducing the damage dealt in the early game so he is not so dominant against most of his lane match ups. But, I DO NOT want the burst from his Q gone.

As for the change in rengar's e, this isn't as devastating as the others. However, if you increased the damage his E does to compensate for the decrease in the damage of his Q, I say NO THANK YOU. As I stated above, the majority of Rengar's damage comes from his Q. His E is not supposed to be for damage, it's supposed to be CC. It's supposed to be a chasing ability, and even though it still is, it is harder to do so. I can tell you right now, If rengar's Q damage wasn't reduced I would be absolutely fine with this change even if you completely removed damage from it altogther.

Finally, his W. I don't necessarily care for the changes. Rengar's current W is not that important. In the same case as his E, if you increased the damage in rengar's W to compensate for the reduction in his Q, I say no thanks once again. His W is indeed supposed to be an intimidating factor, but increasing the damage it does really changes Rengar. Rengar is a hunter, he hides in the shadows and jumps out to kill his prey. He doesn't stand there saying "I'm stronger than you" in an effort to scare his opponent. His W change isn't bad or good in my opinion, but remember if you only did this to make up for the reduction in his Q, i'd MUCH rather have his current Q.

These are my thoughts on the Rengar changes. I don't disagree with nerfs to rengar, I'm just saying that these changes are too drastic. Being a dedicated Rengar player, It would make me sad to see him become a whole different champion if these changes are made. Complaints are made by people who either don't know how to deal with something, or don't want to deal with it. But I can tell you there is a way to deal with it. You do realize that rengar isn't a champion who can just absolutely destroy ALL other champions, don't you? Now, if you want to talk about a serious nerf, let's talk about renekton.


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R U Fukn Nuts

Junior Member

10-14-2013

@SCARIZARD
SCARIZARD

Scar, I know there are too many posts. I know Rengar rework is delayed. I know I might have been a thorn in the side sometimes but -please- hear my words.
I just kindly ask of you to release the lion onto the PBE grounds. You can tweak him as long as you wish while we can test your iteration and make suggestions. Should this be too early to do so - just tell us, but leave a few words aside stating that it's 'Soon, not SoonTM' cause this brings nothing that really matters to the table.
Now, if you could reiterate the main post a little? I mean, just show the direction you're heading.
Especially that Rengar's leap visibility change hit the PBE.
Right now all I can understand from this design standpoint is simply:
Passive is equal to what is on the PBE.
Necklace is more utility than it is on live.
Q gets a little gutted (right now, the empowered one looks as if it was an AA reset, duh.)
W gets buffed in some areas while increasing the window of Rango's vulnerability (that's K, but buff his mr&armor since this is shorter now, please)
E gets a massive buff but goes derpy during laning phase, that's ok for the changes it gets.
And this new ultimate iteration, awesome.

All I ask of you is to show us a little more data and talk to us GD if you could.

SCARIZARD
@SCARIZARD


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

10-14-2013
78 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by R U Fukn Nuts View Post
@SCARIZARD
SCARIZARD

Scar, I know there are too many posts. I know Rengar rework is delayed. I know I might have been a thorn in the side sometimes but -please- hear my words.
I just kindly ask of you to release the lion onto the PBE grounds. You can tweak him as long as you wish while we can test your iteration and make suggestions. Should this be too early to do so - just tell us, but leave a few words aside stating that it's 'Soon, not SoonTM' cause this brings nothing that really matters to the table.
Now, if you could reiterate the main post a little? I mean, just show the direction you're heading.
Especially that Rengar's leap visibility change hit the PBE.
Right now all I can understand from this design standpoint is simply:
Passive is equal to what is on the PBE.
Necklace is more utility than it is on live.
Q gets a little gutted (right now, the empowered one looks as if it was an AA reset, duh.)
W gets buffed in some areas while increasing the window of Rango's vulnerability (that's K, but buff his mr&armor since this is shorter now, please)
E gets a massive buff but goes derpy during laning phase, that's ok for the changes it gets.
And this new ultimate iteration, awesome.

All I ask of you is to show us a little more data and talk to us GD if you could.

SCARIZARD
@SCARIZARD
Could you help me understand what more information you'd like? I'd be happy to oblige - but the changelist in the main post as-is is what i have sitting internally, and reflects the direction we're moving in.

As for PBE, we really only like to use PBE for feedback/discovery on things that are imminent - and while i'm not the most well-versed on PBE shenanigans, we currently have 3 big-ticket reworks there and i don't know how i'd feel about putting him out there especially with him not coming as soon as the ones that are on there now.

THAT SAID - Xelnath seems like he's getting a lot of use out of Xerath's extended-pbe cycle, so as soon as it gets a little less crowded i'm considering throwing him on there. Again, it's 'Soon, not SoonTM' but i -would- like to get you guys playing him ASAP. I'm pretty happy with the direction, but lord knows there's probably a ton of clunky things with him as-is that you guys could spot; working together to make Rengar more fun and cohesive is something i'm up for.


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

10-14-2013

Plz Scar, buff teh Rengar denz throw him into PBE before duh end of dis week! XERATH/HEIMER OPPP


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R U Fukn Nuts

Junior Member

10-14-2013

Thanks for the quick answer Scar,
I think that since you put you have multiple kits going on the internal server you've pretty much answered the question.
Since you can't just put multiple ones onto the PBE, I think I'm just going to wait until you've made your mind about choosing one.
...Though I wonder, what differences do your internal kits have?


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

10-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by R U Fukn Nuts View Post
Thanks for the quick answer Scar,
I think that since you put you have multiple kits going on the internal server you've pretty much answered the question.
Since you can't just put multiple ones onto the PBE, I think I'm just going to wait until you've made your mind about choosing one.
...Though I wonder, what differences do your internal kits have?
I think he already has everything checked off when it comes to Rengar's kit, but I think he just needs testers to get numbers and to see what needs to be tweaked, don't quote me on it though