A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

07-16-2013
2 of 81 Riot Posts

To clarify - i'm still interested in Bonetooth being a stack item that works on kills and assists. As a trophy hunter, it's pretty key to who he is as a character and the reason it was implemented in the first place. My big issue however, is that right now it's purely a snowball item with only one really interesting augment.

I'm interested in exploring a bonetooth with less AD/stats (the 5% cdr and 10 flat armor pen) and as a tool that is more aspirational for Rengar - an item that opens up and accentuates the part of Rengar's stalking/predatory gameplay instead of just letting him kill you harder. For instance, one idea Wav3 and i have been talking about is retuning his '+25 Movement Speed' all the time to '+X% Movement Speed in Brush' - would the combination of that passive alongside the Leap Range increase or others like it make you more effective at lane-ganking? Would you want to take care to fight in the jungle instead of in the lanes? The item would still have enough stats to be worth a slot imo, but the main interest i have is with the effects and if we have an opportunity to take something that is currently a 'win-more' item and turn it into something unique for his play experience overall.


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Akslickricky

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Any news about the lag if there will be a fix or eta?


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Arctic Bro

Member

07-16-2013

can you give btn a bit of hp regen or it's too little too much?


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FreakinEpic808

Senior Member

07-16-2013

It seems like rengar's level 2 with fort pot is kind of insane. As an avid top laner i know to stay way the hell away from until level 3 or 4, but when he has fort pot he can straight up flash dive me and instagib me without any time for reaction(then snowball the lane)


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

07-16-2013

-Keep Rengar out of the jungle. if you do that, You have to increase his healing ability by much more than it is now and decrease his ultimate CD by a fair amount to compensate for the loss of farm. Rengar doesn't belong in the jungle just like Khazix-They should only be there if you have no other option. Not only does Rengar lack the AoE to jungle properly without sacrificing everything that makes him, well, him, but an Assassin only does well with items, especially Rengar. If Rengar farms up, it's the enemies team fault for not stopping him-And he is very counterable.

-The defenses from his battle roar are honestly not all that noticeable. If he gets aimed, he's going to die.His Battle roar is only effective in pretty much the laning phase and in 1v1 assassinations. How to make it more effective? Easy, you shift it into an offensive buff. If rengar gets aimed in a teamfight, he's dead. No amount of shields or defenses will help him. Unless it was a mini shield effect from Eve, but that would be ridiculously overpowered. So buffing it or changing it to provide a temporary defense is not solving a problem but adding a new one.

-Bonetooth Necklace, I think is fine. High Risk, high reward item. In most competitive games you'll rarely see it because of the safeness of those games, where getting 14+ kills really isn't that optimal. In lower level games, it probably runs rampant. I'm not going to pretend to know the numbers, but those are my guesses. How to make it better? If you remove that attack, you'd have to give it some good buffs to compensate-However this errs on the side of knowledge. If it literally is 'An item that buffs your abilities and stats such as CD and MS', there is a burden of knowledge associated with that.

I played Rengar massively when he first came out, and play him here and there. In order for him to be successful, he needs to have a very one sided laning phase-if his opponents get ahead, and they take advantage of that, then there's no coming back for Rengar unless he gets a lane to himself from 10 to 15 minutes. He does have counters, and he is extremely risky at how it is right now.

How to make him better? I think he's good as it is. His ulti CD is a bit long, but if a rengar plays well, then they can and should carry the game. There is nothing toxic about being rewarded for good play and good strategy.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
To clarify - i'm still interested in Bonetooth being a stack item that works on kills and assists. As a trophy hunter, it's pretty key to who he is as a character and the reason it was implemented in the first place. My big issue however, is that right now it's purely a snowball item with only one really interesting augment.

I'm interested in exploring a bonetooth with less AD/stats (the 5% cdr and 10 flat armor pen) and as a tool that is more aspirational for Rengar - an item that opens up and accentuates the part of Rengar's stalking/predatory gameplay instead of just letting him kill you harder. For instance, one idea Wav3 and i have been talking about is retuning his '+25 Movement Speed' all the time to '+X% Movement Speed in Brush' - would the combination of that passive alongside the Leap Range increase or others like it make you more effective at lane-ganking? Would you want to take care to fight in the jungle instead of in the lanes?
Assassin snowballing in order to be functional at ganking other lanes is the worst form of snowballing.

This sort of snowballing makes playing defensively in response even harder.


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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

07-16-2013

To make Rengar work in the jungle you have to actually make the jungle friendly to assassins, and it currently isn't.


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GnomeInfinite

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Stop trying to change the subject you reds. Where's Spirit Guard Udyr, and what's with the lag.


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Plato83

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey y'all -

-Do you identify Rengar's playstyle as one that would be a particularly good fit in the jungle? What improvements would you like to see be made to help him out?

-What is appealing to you about the defensive boost Rengar receives from Battle Roar? I'd like to change this from just flat Armor and Magic Resistance to something that can be situationally more powerful and makes him less 'meatwall' when he leaps on a target

-What types of improvements or changes would you like to see be made to Bonetooth Necklace? Ideally i'd like to see this moved away from a 'stat-stick' and embrace more unique enhancements like his 'Increases Leap Range by 150'

These questions are really just to begin the discussion - i'm certainly looking for thoughts/feedback on a variety of topics, but these are a few that we've been talking about on a higher level that have less of a set direction currently. Wav3break, one of our Live Design Interns is working closely with me on this project and will be monitoring this thread alongside me and will help to soak feedback and answer questions y'all may have.

Without further ado: Rengar! I choose you!
-His ganks from the jungle are actually pretty good after level 6 - stealth right into lane and jump on someone's face, W to boost resist, snare them, Q again, and now you basically have a 5-point ability to use again. The hardest rengars to me have been the ones I top lane against because you *cannot* farm if you're melee - they bush jump you all day long.

-I don't have much feedback on this one. Honestly, I level his W after his Q only for the static stats it gives, and the heal if im farming or being passive for some reason. Sorry.

-I would actually like his necklace to be more like Khazix's evolution - make one of his abilities more useful at times. Khazis *is* his archnemesis, after all. That or perhaps similar to Viktor's in that you could level it at some point (or upgrade it) to perform a particular role - making him either tankier, faster/jump farther, or more upfront damage (since you seem to plan on leveling his damage out)

-Hope this helped somewhat!


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Patchouli Kush

Senior Member

07-16-2013

A hunter jumps out of the brush and puts you down instantaneously. A duelist does sustained dps and duels. Rengar is a hunter.