A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Abdlwhab

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Junior Member

07-16-2013

An alternative for attack speed on empowered Q -- Whoever Rengar empowered Qs on takes a percentage of increased damage from rengar or only his autoattacks for a period of time. And on his empowered battle roar he would take percentage of reduced damage from all sources. This would keep the assassin in the Q but it would give the player a tough and rewarding choice on what empowered ability they use.

Or another idea ~ whoever Rengar normally Qs gets a stacking debuff on them which stays for a little while, when rengar uses his empowered abilities the debuff will be consumed and grant rengar something such as damage or healing based on which empowered ability had been used. Whenever Rengar ults, anyone in range of his ult automatically gets 1 stack of this debuff.


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omnetempus

Junior Member

07-16-2013

Rengar should be a AD glasscannon. The attack speed buff on his q already lasts a long as hell time for a burst champion. Increasing the attack speed duration and decreasing its damage will basically ruin glass cannon rengar and make him a bruiser.

Why do you want Rengar to be a bruiser? Glass cannon rengar is way more fun and you actually feel like a predator.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Making his W just cc break makes it strategic, otherwise defensive bonuses will just be used on cc to mitigate damage


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Joystick

Senior Member

07-16-2013

There was this moment in a ranked game I had a few months ago. I was jungling Hecarim while the enemy jungler was obviously Rengar (wouldn't it be so random if I just went off on a tangent about something completely unrelated? lol). I was on my way to my red when I noticed rengar attempting to steal it. So I went for him in the Red buff...alcove I guess. He ducked into the red bush and I dove in after him, but before I could get fully into the bush he leapt out and ducked into the bush across from it. So I chased him towards that, but again, before I could get into the bush he leapt out and ducked back into the red bush. This little cat and mouse game happened several times, luckily I was touting the pony power and was able to kill him with my AOE eventually. I just couldn't help but laugh the whole time he was dodging between bushes with his passive and I'm sitting here chasing him around. The point of this story is: that moment wasn't frustrating for me at all even though he was essentially toying with me! I think the Jungle is the place Rengar was meant to be! So if you decide to fight him, he's going to toy with you and use the knowledge of his home to really mess with you! So I think as you guys are working out what to do with Rengar, I'd really like to see even more of those predatory moments from Rengar.

Maybe, as you were saying about the bonus movespeed in brush from the necklace, as he scales into the game those moments become bigger for him. The baron dance, with a Rengar on your team becomes even more intense as the enemy team knows there's a predatory lion lurking around the corner. So if you're really wanting him to Jungle (because his laning can tend to be toxic due to so much sustain) you give him jungle specific enhancements. For example maybe his Ferocity bonus on his W gives him much less healing now, but as a trade it gives him reduced damage from neutral monsters temporarily. Or the bonus to his Q does less overall burst damage to champions but MORE to a neutral monster, and then his bonetooth necklace can later remove that neutral monster debuff to his Q so he can use it on champions.

Speaking of the necklace, another thought just occurred to me (forgive me I'm just spitballing here, and maybe it's already been mentioned before) but maybe it can still be stacked just by killing neutral monsters, albeit slowly with bonuses on champion kills and assists. This way it's not SOLELY based on kills so a Rengar who just wants to farm or who is against lanes that are hard to gank can still stack that necklace. I think that allows you to balance the power of the necklace to give Rengar things he's really going to want later in the game (and can still get even if his team is behind) but doesn't necessarily need.

Those are a couple of things I just thought of off the top of my head, but I'll think of some more and pop back into this thread. I love Rengar, and while I played the snot out of him while he was brokenly overpowered, I admit that he was in fact just that. I hope to see him more again simply because I just love that guy!

Sidenote, I like Rengar more as a tanky bruiser rather than a burst assassin. That's just me.

Sorry I don't have time to edit this for grammatical mistakes, I'll check back soon! Maybe scarizard will even reply, wouldn't that be fun?? =D


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Hippopotamus G

Senior Member

07-16-2013

asdafx


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jaypenn

Member

07-16-2013

about the voice over during ult, i dont like it. i feel like you waste your ult entirely when enemies know about it, so it is too punishing to rengar players.


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GidgitDijit

Junior Member

07-16-2013

Currently Rengar is pretty good. The only thing I'd change about Scarizard's changes is the Bola Strike ratio increase. CC + Damage usually = Broken. Think about Riven, she has been nerfed to the ground yet she still is strong, why? Because she has knockback, stun, and a shield all while doing damage.


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The MechE

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Just updated the OP with the changes that are currently testing. Numbers excluded as they're subject to change.

Tried an iteration where Savagery, in lieu of Attack Speed instead awarded a bonus point of Ferocity to Rengar when he used it on targets below 50% health. I liked how it played out, but wasn't noticeable enough and in most cases it was just 'Rengar is getting more 5 points than usual for doing things he'd do anyways' - i'd like to see some form of this return somewhere on the Bonetooth if at all possible, and we're investigating cool ways to make that happen.

All of his Ferocity Effects not minding what you were previously leveling has made some cool cases in lane where you'll max W/E but still choose Q - whereas on Live it's just 'what is the thing i am leveling? Doublecast that for crazy spike damage' - in response we've upped the damage on these abilities to make them singularly better for their regular use-cases.

W's current iteration is trying something i heard from forumgoers the last time Classick was discussing his changes that also helps him jungle. My vision for Battle Roar if it needs to have a defensive component is to make it less good against every thing and give it a distinct use-case. Currently running with Doran's shield passive for all Physical Damage. This makes him much more susceptible to magic damage and mage CC + Burst combos, but keeps him strong vs those carries he loves to chew on, as well as keeping those jungle mobs honest. I'm not super attached to it, but it's definitely fulfilling my goals as of now.

R's runspeed being upped right now really allows it to be used for strategic set ups, but is probably stronger than a character like this needs at rank 1. While revealing him earlier might sound like a super nerf, in practice it's shown that it's not actually enough to stop people from feeling totally jumped. The VO playing when he ults though has been testing -very- well both as/against and really strikes fear into enemies. What would you guys feel about Global VO when Rengar Ults, like Nocturne?

Anyways, i've gotten a lot of good ideas from you guys tonight that i want to think on. I'm not gonna pass out just yet so i'll be around for a bit longer, but my Safari Zone timer's runnin' out
I would like the global VO a lot.


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Stark6000

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirror View Post
hopefully new rengar will benefit from his redesign as much as new karma

lol!


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PsychicSlash

Junior Member

07-16-2013

...WHY? Rengar is not overpowered and is not underpowered. His triple Q is not a bug, but a high skill technique. Rengar is exactly where he needs to be. Stop reworking champs that don't need it and concentrate on the Heimer rework you promised.