A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Labcown

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
It's not as good, but you also would sometime get ~50+ for killing golems, or siege minions. Or you could just build both :P

Like i said, throwing a number out. I don't suspect i'll put 5 in for testing, but something around the numbers Doran's items have is what i'm looking for.
Have you thought about making it a "shield on kill"? Sort of like a temporary hit point deal due to the thrill of the kill.

This could give him the sustain you're looking for with a bigger number attached since a shield is situational while HP regain is a little more encumbering.

This could lead to cool interactions where Ren manages to survive because he went for the minion kill then engaged.


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GrieverXIII

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunkmaster View Post
Do you think this would Doran's Blade Rengar Jungle viable aswell?
Already viable with LS Quints.

Kinda scared about this rework tbh...i really like how unique Rengar's playstyle is among junglers and i feel a lot of other champs could benefit from the devs attention. Any special reason for so much focus on him?


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The Dunkmaster

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griever1944 View Post
Already viable with LS Quints.

Kinda scared about this rework tbh...i really like how unique Rengar's playstyle is among junglers and i feel a lot of other champs could benefit from the devs attention. Any special reason for so much focus on him?
His kit is overpowered/broken


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GrieverXIII

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunkmaster View Post
His kit is overpowered/broken
http://www.lolking.net/champions/ren...ond#statistics

50% winrate on average, low popularity, am i missing something about his Kit or did decent players already figure how to counter it?


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Vivi R66

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griever1944 View Post
http://www.lolking.net/champions/ren...ond#statistics

50% winrate on average, low popularity, am i missing something about his Kit or did decent players already figure how to counter it?
Thats the actual, nerfed on everythign but the E, Rengar of now. His winrate HAS to be low, he was nerfed hard as hell on every single status besides his E.

His kit is so op they had to make all his numbers low, because of his damn instagib play.


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Margatroid

Junior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
No worries, dude. I actually main assassins and fighters, so Rengar has always been a really attractive champion to me - i just appreciate that assassins are a class that requires finesse and nuance, as well as a good sense of game knowledge, situational awareness, and the ability to be opportunistic. Things like this draw me to the Class as a whole, and things like Rengar's 500% AD triple-q-in-less-than-a-second doesn't make me feel clever, or like i'm outplaying anyone - it just makes me feel like i'm subverting gameplay in a way that makes our game more dry as a whole.

Naturally i'm giga-biased, but this version of Rengar makes me feel like i have options and real choices, and that when i pull off stealth ganks in a lane or shrouding mid-fight and surprising people i've gotten a high degree of satisfaction and feel really accomplished. Even the Q-Train (Q2 giving 3 Ferocity) makes me feel like i have a planned 'combo' similar to Ryze (Which spell do i begin with and then end with to get the most Ferocity Spells?) that i think is fun and lets me press a bunch of buttons.

tl;dr Assassin Rengar being 'unviable' was never a goal, just the way that he was executing his play felt unfair and unfulfilling.

BONUS ROUND:

So, i'm redoing the numbers on Bonetooth atm. Thinking of adding a secondary passive to make it more attractive to Rengar players in lane, while also having synergy with Jungle.

How does this sound?

PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?


I feel like that bonetooth idea seems too similar to trundle's passive, and I'm not sure how it fits Rengar's theme. Does he eat his kill or something?


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Titiln

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
No worries, dude. I actually main assassins and fighters, so Rengar has always been a really attractive champion to me - i just appreciate that assassins are a class that requires finesse and nuance, as well as a good sense of game knowledge, situational awareness, and the ability to be opportunistic. Things like this draw me to the Class as a whole, and things like Rengar's 500% AD triple-q-in-less-than-a-second doesn't make me feel clever, or like i'm outplaying anyone - it just makes me feel like i'm subverting gameplay in a way that makes our game more dry as a whole.

Naturally i'm giga-biased, but this version of Rengar makes me feel like i have options and real choices, and that when i pull off stealth ganks in a lane or shrouding mid-fight and surprising people i've gotten a high degree of satisfaction and feel really accomplished. Even the Q-Train (Q2 giving 3 Ferocity) makes me feel like i have a planned 'combo' similar to Ryze (Which spell do i begin with and then end with to get the most Ferocity Spells?) that i think is fun and lets me press a bunch of buttons.

tl;dr Assassin Rengar being 'unviable' was never a goal, just the way that he was executing his play felt unfair and unfulfilling.

BONUS ROUND:

So, i'm redoing the numbers on Bonetooth atm. Thinking of adding a secondary passive to make it more attractive to Rengar players in lane, while also having synergy with Jungle.

How does this sound?

PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?
that's trundle's passive wtf man.


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Steamcario

Senior Member

09-06-2013

yo scarizard, while you guys are at it can you fix the hunt is on quest? Currently it's impossible for rengar to win it and it's been like this for quite some time :<


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Qwert

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Senior Member

09-06-2013

Heal on kill is a bad idea for top lane Rengar.

A Rengar who is ahead and can bully their lane opponent enough for free last hits will now out sustain them too.

A Rengar who is behind and is struggling for last hits under a turret now feels even worse for missing CS.


Perhaps a heal on missed CS? Word it like "Rengar pushes himself harder for every kill that gets away, causing him to heal X hp" Obviously, this would be only minions dying to other minions/turrets.


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Hyde from Darius

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
It's not as good, but you also would sometime get ~50+ for killing golems, or siege minions. Or you could just build both :P

Like i said, throwing a number out. I don't suspect i'll put 5 in for testing, but something around the numbers Doran's items have is what i'm looking for.
Instead of adding ****-tier sustain to the bonetooth, why not add something actually useful?

How about .5-1 second of stealth per kill, and 1.5-2 seconds on a champion kill? This would allow Rengar to make those nice assassin plays, or those slippery getaways, and make it unique to him. Making it into a second doran's blade = bad. Giving him a second or two of stealth on a passive cooldown of 5 seconds/10 seconds per re-entry into stealth = good.